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The wing and the forum.

RXP.

Well-known member
Joined
24 Oct 2017
Messages
248
I have often pondered on what makes a great car.

Is it the engineering? The sound it makes? The steering feel? The way it makes you feel hooning around at 5 am on B roads?
I think its all of those things, but what binds all of those together and makes a truly great ownership experience is a good forum with good members.

There are many good members on here its too long of a list to mention them all. However a thank you is in order for DEMORT who came to my moment in need as he has done countless times before for others, offering sound mechanical advice and even even going out of his way to go above and beyond to help me.

What an absolute legend of a guy. A true enthusiast and a man with a genuine passion for Porsche.

Thanks Demort. Really appreciate all of your help.

............................

The wing.

I bought my cheery little C2S from member Jason last year, always with the intention to improve dynamics, and aerokit the car. The remit was simple.

I was less of a fan of the classic 911 shape instead in my mind I thought it kinda looked weird without a wing. A bit to Subtle, a bit too plain jane if you will.

Dynamics improved with Ohlins Coilovers, RSS engine mounts, New arms and bushings all around. Then Phill997 and the... Finn kind of swayed me into gearbox mounts, and the induction mod, then nearly swayed me into an IPD plenum but that's another story (a very dangerous combo those two maketh)

So whilst all this was going on, I managed to slowly gather the parts required for full Aerokit. However in addition to this:
Some very lightweight wheels. A Cup steering wheel and a Notorious CAE shifter.

Work life has been, and is super busy, so its taken a while for me to send everything off for paint, I have been aching to see everything on the car and often find myself trawling the internet for pictures and user experiences.

However Monday this week I dropped everything off to the painters and as I was leaving the house I glanced back and it hit me.

The lines of the rear are just so good, The curves, the details , its... its ... perfect?

perfect........ without a wing.

So now I dont know, do I keep this machine winged or wingless....

What do you guys think? :dont know:
 
OP, you are absolutely right about Demort.

His posts are there for everyone to see. But better than that, those posts remain where they are as a future reference to anyone seeking help on issues concerning their Porsche.
In the very great majority of cases one doesn't even need to ask the question as it's invariably been answered, explained and documented on here. The same can be said too for other very knowledgeable forum members when it comes to getting dirty hands. (Alex, Mr Corn, Infrasilver spring immediately to mind but there are others that make excellent technical contributions, GT4's brilliant explanatory posts will always be there to be used as needy reference guides) :worship: to all that know their stuff and are happy to reward the forum with their knowledge.

As for your second point, well, that's only one that you can decide surely.
My two p's worth? Do it, as you have already gone so far down the road to getting it done and you clearly wanted to do it. If you don't like it you can always revert. :thumb:
 
After 2 years of ownership, I can't say how many times I've received help from Demort. Even getting him out of bed at 7am on a Sunday!

Salt of the earth, above and beyond doesn't cut it when talking about Iain.

Took my car to him for the major, 125 miles away, worth every metre for the level of service I received.
 
Demort...... :bow:

Wing.......If it ain't broken....don't fix it......

I pride my ownership on having a totally unmolested 997.1 C4S, just as it came from the factory....albeit each to their own with mods....eh Phil? :grin:
 
Well if you don't like it, we can do a swap? :lol:
 
You may affect behaviours at high speeds with only a partial aero kit fitted. I trust Porsche aero engineers. Don't know if you could buy aero kit withou the rear spoiler.

Having done the CAT training at Milbrook, we demonstrated various effects at speed, compliance steer, engine steer 90+, and aero effects at 120+ They are real and noticeable.

Totally right about DeMort :thumb:
 
You are right there RXP as I think that we can all say that Demort has helped us all out at some point and he is a true legend of the forum! :bow:

For me i am a no wing guy personally, but i think that might be down to having a Cab which i don't think suit a wing at all, even though Phil nearly talked me into buy the one his mate has for sale! The coupe's do suit them a lot more and if i and a coupe i would probably add one but again as other have said it really is down to personal taste of yes / no and which type you like. But seeing as you already have it and its at the painters you might as well fit it and see what you think, if not just go back as i am sure there will be plenty of members who will take it off your hands especially with new paint.

BTW have you seen this, you never know you might get a bargain! :floor: :wack:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-...h=item4d7e838807:g:ppoAAOSwLWBbRTI5:rk:1:pf:0
 
I 100% agree about Iain(deMort) he has helped many of us in his own time and is a true asset to this forum. as are many guys whose contributions make this forum so active compared to others.
TheFinn I am glad is taking over the role of guy who gets stick for spending everyones money on mods :grin: :grin:

and whether we like mods or like our cars unmolested they are all beautiful cars and all the different views are what make this forum interesting .

now that Wing , as you know I LIKE a mod or two and encourage people to add a bit of their own personallity to their cars. BUT as much as I like the aero wing I am worried about you doing it without adding the AERO/GT3 front bumper and lip , at minimum you need to think about some form of lower front lip if you want to keep the aerodynamics right,
If your only going to be using the car at legal speed limits and the wing is a more visual enhancement than functional then you may get away with it but it wont be ideal and I really do suggest that you budget to do the front bumper and lip as well in the near future ( yes I realise I may have just talked you into spending more money :floor: ) Personally I love the more aggressive look of an aerokitted car but understand others prefer the smoother lines of the car without a kit. the good news is the wing is the more expensive part of the aero kit and you already have that. and its not money thrown away as when you change the car you put it back to stock and sell the aerokit and get most if not all your money back. :thumb: :thumb: now wheres the pic of your new alloys :grin:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-...=item3d76b17d68:g:FhIAAOSwYwFblsAk:rk:35:pf:0

this one is a std bumper with a lower lip, it doesnt memtion whos lip but IMO looking at it its a GT3TEK PU lip

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-...h=item33f6cb07c6:g:cxwAAOSwUVhbvgIM:rk:6:pf:0

heres the GT3TEK web site

http://www.gt3tek.com/PHP/lupa.php?id=997 turbo


:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 
Compliance steer? Engine steer? Go on...
 
Thefinn said:
RXP. said:
So whilst all this was going on, I managed to slowly gather the parts required for full Aerokit. :dont know:

Doesn't RXP have the front bumper already sorted :?:

:dont know: :dont know: maybe but didnt see any mention of it :?:
 
The return of Marty Wild said:
Compliance steer? Engine steer? Go on...

Not sure if serious, but I'll elaborate;

It was some of the characteristics of the 911 covered by Colin Hoad on the high speed bowl at Milbrook.

Based on factory spec car:
He described compliance steering as Basically the natural frequencies/harmonics/tolerance stacks in the suspension components causing the car to track a little without any steering inputs. Happens at 90+.

Engine steer was described as the engine moving around on the mounts at 110+, again causing small directional changes.

The learning point was not to try and compensate with steering input, as it will invariably lead to overcompensating, worst case would result in a tank slapper.

Over 120 is when the aero starts to kick in and the car hunkers down (on the Milbrook bowl at least).

My point relevant to the OP is that the air ducts in the front PU are not only designed for brake cooling but also for aero and to work in harmony with the aero at the rear of the car.

If driving in excess of uk road speed limit I would be cautious about using aero kit not as per design intent. If the aerokit was available from the factory without the rear wing, then crack on and choose with or without as you please.

I'm assuming the aero kit actually has some aero effect and is not purely cosmetic.

:dont know: James
 
Agree what a great forum it really adds to the value of ownership as does a good Indy! We should never take for granted the help Demont gives us :thumbs:
I've never been a fan of big wings omo I think the wing on the turbo is perfect just enough enjoy your car and the forum :thumb: some photo would be nice :thumb:
 
I too love the forum, and the contributions from deMort are especially helpful. I should be asking him why I have front end wobble under braking, but I'd feel a berk until I at least try to sort it myself: I should probably try to remove/reinstall the 12mm spacers to see if that's the issue. This car does seem susceptible to wheel wobble for some reason, despite annual alignments and so on.

As to the wing, I'd only want the full aero for balance in extremis, not just one end or the other. You can run a ducktail (which is of course a spoiler) on a Carrera, but personally I think that the wings truly belong on Turbos and GTs, and that they just don't 'work' on Carreras. But if it makes you happy, then by all means, go ahead, as I've no issue with modifications at all. :grin:
 

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