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KA
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Joined: 02 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: PPI Results (997.2 C4 PDK) - Any advice appreciated Reply with quote

Hi

Had a PPI completed today, great report and very helpful service. The gent identified a couple of items which I am to be honest not sure what to think so would appreciate help from all of your experience on here...

Text from the report reads as below, there are accompanying photos but not sure how to upload images on here:

> There was a leak from the gearbox – this is not a severe
leak and looks like it may be coming from one of the driveshaft seal. This would need to be cleaned up and
inspected to assess fully.

>Suspension and steering all appeared sound. There was a coolant leak from the area of the NSF radiator hoses.
This is only slight.

The gearbox leak concerns me the most as I guess that could be the most expensive fix but I don't know how concerned I would need to be.. The selling garage state it is not a problem and are not prepared to take it to OPC or a specialist for assessment - they have said their usual mechanics have assessed this and do not think it an issue. If I want it assessed by Porsche it will have to come out of my pocket.

Question is should I be concerned or maybe what level of concern should I have? Its now at the point of either buy or walk away. I am a big fan of the car but don't want to take on any undue risk... Have owned new/almost new cars for the last 10 years so looking at a car nearly 10 years old is probably concerning me more than it should. No over revs whatsoever on the car and its in good condition apart from the above, 67k on the clock and price is 35k ish

Cheers,

KA
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15469
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Karl,The coolant leak they should sort , sounds like its on one of the cheaper sections at the front either a joint , pipe or rad but they should accept to sort that , it then just leaves the gearbox driveshaft seal , try a PM to member deMort as hes a porsche tech and will be able to advise on it. my general thoughts are it may be an engine drop to get to it and thats 8 hrs labour so at indy prices the job may be £7/800 to fix but thats only my general thought it may be able to be done insitu. I normally budget something to do the bits I want sorting when I buy a car , my thoughts are see if they will sort the coolant pipe and see if they will come down something to contribute to the repair to the seal even if its only £300 that would mean you only haveing to spend £500 and thats assuming its as much as I have suggested. 5thats my 2p mate others may advise differently but I think if thats all the PPI flagged on a 10 yr old car it sounds like a decent car. Thumb Thumb
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KA
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
Hi Karl,The coolant leak they should sort , sounds like its on one of the cheaper sections at the front either a joint , pipe or rad but they should accept to sort that , it then just leaves the gearbox driveshaft seal , try a PM to member deMort as hes a porsche tech and will be able to advise on it. my general thoughts are it may be an engine drop to get to it and thats 8 hrs labour so at indy prices the job may be £7/800 to fix but thats only my general thought it may be able to be done insitu. I normally budget something to do the bits I want sorting when I buy a car , my thoughts are see if they will sort the coolant pipe and see if they will come down something to contribute to the repair to the seal even if its only £300 that would mean you only haveing to spend £500 and thats assuming its as much as I have suggested. 5thats my 2p mate others may advise differently but I think if thats all the PPI flagged on a 10 yr old car it sounds like a decent car. Thumb Thumb


Thanks Phil, your advice has been invaluable in my search (you locating and suggesting the car!), I think as you suggested I am going to put to them that they get the coolant leak sorted at their place and at least assess the gearbox leak and confirm in writing their findings.

The price I am quoting at £35k includes 2 year RAC Platinum warranty and 12 months tax in addition to 2 new front tyres (rears are recent) along with a couple of other small jobs along with MOT and any advisories put right.

But, i am also taking on replacing/repairing a malfunctioning PCM (OPC has said replacement is required) plus front discs and pads along with rear discs all are either close to or need replacing (rear discs 26.1, front 25.5, front pads 6mm, rear pads are new).

If you don't mind looking at it or are interested to see I am happy to share the full PPI report with you - it at least makes interesting reading to see what the company I used produce (From my novice point of view I find them very helpful and thorough)

Cheers,

Karl
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Phil 997
Le Mans
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
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Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Karl , yes interested to see it mate. I would like deMort's or someone who has technical knoledge to advise what the remedial is with the seal just so you know what cost your taking on . then if they accept the coolant issue and already have agreed the other bits , you know your taking the cost of the brakes and pcm repair . so if then all parties are happy we could be seeing pics shortly on here. Thumb Its good that you know what needs doing and have negotiated or accepted those things it will make for a good start to 911 ownership and is the beauty of a good PPI report. Thumb
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spongebob squarepants
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presumably the RAC platinum warranty isn't going to cover the cost of a new PDK gearbox? If not I would be concerned over the box in particular, that's the one thing on a gen 2 that makes me keep the OPC warranty Question
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cheshire911
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Joined: 10 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the PCM needs replacing, you'll need smelling salts to come round after you discover the price - and that gearbox seal sounds expensive too.
The RAC Platinum Warranty - wouldn't put too much faith in that.

Pay the £200 or so and have an OPC 111 point inspection then decide.

Walk away always remains an option. Not exactly rare cars.
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Magic919
Barcelona


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don’t expect Porsche to work on the PDK box, other than replacing it.
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Robert SausageTrousers
Monza


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'd walk away, if the dealer selling it isn't prepared to get it in A1 condition before sale then find one who is.
 
  
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FZP
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If a new PCM and gearbox are required, then you're looking at several kg's of smelling salts as Porsche only do exchange boxes and the PCM is what it is.
£200 for the 111 point check is a must, otherwise you may regret your purchase otherwise
Edit: I've amended the gibberish that was the above post, thanks to predictive ducking text. Grin
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Last edited by FZP on Fri Aug 31, 2018 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Monkeynutz
Nürburgring


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 466
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple of things I have learnt since owning my C4S

Front coolant crossover pipes are prone to corrosion. It's about £200 to replace the parts on both sides + 3.5hrs or so. I have just had mine done and don't know if similar to what's described above.

Oil leaks or misting are not uncommon and can be difficult to trace back to the cause. I had to get the bottom of the engine area cleaned off and then ran it for a few weeks. In my case it turned out to be the engine sump gasket, again I am told by my indie it is not uncommon on the 997.2.

My front diff seals were misting but not enough for Porsche warranty to fix (this point, and others has somewhat hacked me off and I will not renew the warranty). The seals were £20 each side + fitting not sure if it is similar on the rear but apparently it isn't a massive job.

I was nervous about dropping the warranty since I had previously had a PDK oil temp sensor failure so asked for a quote on an exchange PDK gearbox from Porsche Germany. I was told £4.5k+VAT and fitting. I was also told the PCM wasn't far off a similar price to replace! Surprised If the car is a keeper I would consider an aftermarket solution for the PCM at a fraction of the price and far better.

My PDK repair wasn't straight forward as the bolts on the sump have a tendency to snap requiring helicoil or what ever it's called. Had 2 that needed fixing on mine and OPC didn't have anyone to fix it so they had to get a 3rd party in.....another point which tainted my OPC experience.

IF the dealer wont address the issues (it says a lot about the dealer especially if they welcomed the inspection) I would be inclined to either get a second opinion via OPC 111 check or walk away unless the price is considerably less than the average market value. Sounds like this car has a list of issues albeit relatively minor but still potentially very costly over all and these are not rare cars. No guarantees with a 8-10 year old car of course but £35k + repairs is still a lot of money even if the 997.2 cars are cracking value.

My 2p worth only of course, good luck!
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Monkeynutz
Nürburgring


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 466
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.dovehousecars.com/car/1178-porsche-911-997--3-8-carrera-4s-pdk-coupe-gen-ii

Dovehouse have a great rep as a specialist.

Had a look around and £35k-ish + the issues doesn't look to be a deal worth chasing if you are unsure.
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15469
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Dove house car looks nice , but 37.500 and dove house dont move much on prices , I had already talked Karl up to 35k so 37.5k might be a step too far, but if its not then its a car well worth consideration from a well respected dealer Thumb the man maths is kicking in and saying as its a 4S if the 37.5k dove house car is or will be totally sorted then thats better than the car I suggested at 35k with potentially some bills with it that may be a few K to sort. Thumb
But we can only suggest ,Karl knows what he can spend and what he needs to do.
Grin Thumb
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Porschekit
Österreich


Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 962
Location: North East UK


PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good comments Phil......I would also say that if the PCM is not fixed before purchase it could be potentially a lot more than £2k to replace as we can see in the thread above. Also when I had the discs and pads on my C4S replaced all round at a good Indy it was the thick end of £1k (£740 parts and £216 labour) , so you're already into Dove House money.

I know it's a conundrum Karl, we all go through the same dilemma !

Keep asking , we'll keep advising... Thumb

John
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KA
Newbie


Joined: 02 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gents you have all been fantastic with your very helpful responses and have helped me come do a decision that although disappointing feels the right one to make and I am comfortable with it - When looking at the Dove house one it puts the deal into more perspective...

My man maths says that this car it going to be up towards 38k by the time I factor in 2k for replacing PCM (probably non-OEM), 1k for pads and disks, fixing leaks anything from circa 1k up to £????? the deal just doesn't make sense.

When I could potentially get a C4S for that money which will surely have better residual then that will be a more sensible decision.

There is definitely a rather steep learning curve with this Porsche buying lark and the support on here has really made a difference along with the vital PPI that was completed.

Incidentally if anyone does want to consider the car I was going for I am more than happy to share the PPI report.

Cheers,

Karl
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Monkeynutz
Nürburgring


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope we haven't dampened the journey any. I have had my car for 21 months and I am still climbing the steep learning curve Razz

The Dovehouse car could always not be as good as it looks but I think it might be fair reflection of where the market is going for the next few months particularly on the cars with over 60k miles.

One thing worth adding is that at cars this age will likely need maintenance on the rubbers and 'consumables' so it is worth knowing what the common things are and looking into the history and maintenance file (if available) to see what has been done.

I do think you will be rewarded with your patience and doing your due diligence especially this time of year when prices will soften and deals can be had. thumbsup
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KA
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkeynutz wrote:
Hope we haven't dampened the journey any. I have had my car for 21 months and I am still climbing the steep learning curve Razz

The Dovehouse car could always not be as good as it looks but I think it might be fair reflection of where the market is going for the next few months particularly on the cars with over 60k miles.

One thing worth adding is that at cars this age will likely need maintenance on the rubbers and 'consumables' so it is worth knowing what the common things are and looking into the history and maintenance file (if available) to see what has been done.

I do think you will be rewarded with your patience and doing your due diligence especially this time of year when prices will soften and deals can be had. thumbsup


Not at all, its great to know there is a support network to assist with advice on making decisions and giving me pointers...

Of course it would be nice if the first car I put deposit down on and had the PPI for was perfect but in the real world it was always going to be pretty unlikely - I am pragmatic though and understand that a car in perfect condition isn't going to fall within budget.

I am happy in the knowledge that there is a 911 in my near(ish) future and with help from the likes of yourself and the other guys on here I am going to be able to make a more informed decision.

Cheers,

Karl
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15469
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karl, your a genuine enthusiast and your already contributing to this forum, so we are all always happy to offer our 2p in trying to help with your quest. I think you are approaching 911 ownership in completly the right way, far better to spend a few quid on a few PPIs and get the right car and deal for you after all thats exactily what the PPI is meant to do. I must say the gen2 4S at Dove house is worth considering as its unusual to see one at a good dealer under 40k this must be reflecting the fact its a buyers market which is why you are right to walk from the original gen2 I suggested, as it really should be in tip top otherwise as you have said it could end up a 38/39k car . Many of us have been in the same position as you and the right car will come along . The guys on here know the good the bad and the ugly dealers across the country and will always try and help. I would suggest if you spot potentially the right car that you do just as you did previously and PM a few guys for advice and thoughts and not post on the open forum about as pecific car as this forum at any one time will have twice as many lurkers logged in as forum members and a sweet deal may get pinched from under your nose . So get a refundable deposit on it as you did with the last one before openly posting about a particular car. general questions are fine on the open forum but I would hate to see you miss one because a lurker moved on it quicker than you. Thumb Thumb Thumb keep us all posted as your search continues Thumb Thumb
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