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KA
Newbie


Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: 1st Porsche. Advice on car seen on auto trader Reply with quote

Hi all,

I have seen and fallen for a car, would be my first 911, dream car and finally in a position to buy one.

I have seen the following car on auto trader and also been to see it in person and she is a looker:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201805146493239?atmobcid=soc3

I held off from taking her for a test drive as I know that would tip me over the edge in to heart ruling head...

What I would like advice with is it at a reasonable price point? My plan would be a full PPI and borescope before committing, I have Nelsons (Stockton on Tees) and Redline Racing on my doorstep so would use one of those to provide the inspections, does anyone have an opinion on who would be best to go with, plan would be to use whoever for initial inspections then hopefully continue to use their services (as little as possible!!) moving forward.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Cheers

KA
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15355
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks nice , the low mileage is reflecing the slightly high price I suspect . get a ppi and borescope as you say . you will get people saying for 37k you could get a Gen2 C2S with PDK and unless you must have a 4S the gen2 would be the better buy. they will have a valid point but only you know what you want . the gen1 is a more focussed driving car IMO but whether a gen1 4S AWD would be more focussed than a gen2 2S rear wheel drive I am not sure . Its important you dont rush at it heart first. Have you driven RWD over AWD 911s they are very different so it depends on what you want from the car . the cars well specced and from what I could see its only missing sports seats and PSE exhaust . looks like its got sunroof delete which is nice as they are heavy in the wrong place, again IMO ,some love a sunroof lol. You have 37k to spend what specifically draws you to that car other than the 3k pa mileage . Thumb
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Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
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KA
Newbie


Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
Looks nice , the low mileage is reflecing the slightly high price I suspect . get a ppi and borescope as you say . you will get people saying for 37k you could get a Gen2 C2S with PDK and unless you must have a 4S the gen2 would be the better buy. they will have a valid point but only you know what you want . the gen1 is a more focussed driving car IMO but whether a gen1 4S AWD would be more focussed than a gen2 2S rear wheel drive I am not sure . Its important you dont rush at it heart first. Have you driven RWD over AWD 911s they are very different so it depends on what you want from the car . the cars well specced and from what I could see its only missing sports seats and PSE exhaust . looks like its got sunroof delete which is nice as they are heavy in the wrong place, again IMO ,some love a sunroof lol. You have 37k to spend what specifically draws you to that car other than the 3k pa mileage . Thumb


Hi Phil

Thanks for the reply. Reason for a 4 over 2 is I am hoping to use it year round and where I live the roads aren’t great over winter and I am assuming every little helps and 4WD can make a difference (happy to be corrected on that) not a big sunroof fan, colour combo is perfect and as you say the low mileage feels a positive although almost concerns me in a way that it is so low as in there’s not been chance for it to develop any issues! Feels a little daft that being a worry....
 
  
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jimmy p
Montreal


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Notts / Derbys


PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think its at least 5k overpriced.
Phone a few dealers pretend you own the car and looking to sell, see what the best offer is, think it will bring a little reality to your car shopping.
_________________
2007 987 guards red
Ex
987.2 Boxster Spyder manual, buckets, spyder alloys,pse
981 Platinum silver
1999 996.1 c2 aerokit in white
1996 993 c2 polar silver
2002 996 c4s seal grey
 
  
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pzero
General
General


Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 5450
Location: London


PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KA, Welcome to 911uk.

You could drop a PM to Ragpicker, long time member on here, he lives within a stones throw of your locale. He knows his way around 911's and the 996 in particular. He will be more than happy to point you in the right direction for advice and who is good or better for local inspections.
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15355
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KA wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:
Looks nice , the low mileage is reflecing the slightly high price I suspect . get a ppi and borescope as you say . you will get people saying for 37k you could get a Gen2 C2S with PDK and unless you must have a 4S the gen2 would be the better buy. they will have a valid point but only you know what you want . the gen1 is a more focussed driving car IMO but whether a gen1 4S AWD would be more focussed than a gen2 2S rear wheel drive I am not sure . Its important you dont rush at it heart first. Have you driven RWD over AWD 911s they are very different so it depends on what you want from the car . the cars well specced and from what I could see its only missing sports seats and PSE exhaust . looks like its got sunroof delete which is nice as they are heavy in the wrong place, again IMO ,some love a sunroof lol. You have 37k to spend what specifically draws you to that car other than the 3k pa mileage . Thumb


Hi Phil

Thanks for the reply. Reason for a 4 over 2 is I am hoping to use it year round and where I live the roads aren’t great over winter and I am assuming every little helps and 4WD can make a difference (happy to be corrected on that) not a big sunroof fan, colour combo is perfect and as you say the low mileage feels a positive although almost concerns me in a way that it is so low as in there’s not been chance for it to develop any issues! Feels a little daft that being a worry....


Well there no doubt after haveing both that even down south the AWD is better in winter so that makes total sence why you want a 4S and given that to get a gen2 4S you would need to add another 7k ish ,I get why that particular car . The mileage isnt silly low but your thought about it not having time to develop issues I would agree if it was an early pre IMS upgrade car but its not its got the newer IMS so really it leaves only potential borescore as the only concern, but with low miles and a borescope you will know just where you stand with that and if its clean then provided you follow the well publicised risk reducing measures . then really your at no more risk of problems than you would be with any marque and as its stock and unmodified you can get an OPC warranty on it until 2021 at about 1k pa then you really have got total piece of mind driving, you would need it to pass an OPC 111 point check and have owned the car for 90 days to get that but no reason why one of the indies you mention couldnt as part of your due dilligence look at all the 111 points an OPC would look at and make sure you get a fully comprehensive 3 month warranty from the selling dealer (not the normal crap warranty they like to try and palm you off with) and if that works for you then you can enjoy 3 yrs of worry free 911 ownership, by that time you will know the car so well you can get one of the indy warranties labour only is the normal but labour is often more than 50% of any bill with these cars . hope those thoughts help Thumb Thumb
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Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
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KA
Newbie


Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimmy p wrote:
I really think its at least 5k overpriced.
Phone a few dealers pretend you own the car and looking to sell, see what the best offer is, think it will bring a little reality to your car shopping.


Hi Jimmy

Wow, that seems a lot - closest car I have seen is one very similar in black at portiacraft near where I work, that’s got 56k on the clock and on for £32k... I do feel it is at the top end price wise based on my (limited) knowledge. I am hoping to get the price down a bit but don’t know what is a reasonable expectation. I know it’s the old thing of if you don’t ask you don’t get but don’t want to put in a daft offer way below what they are asking... any suggestions?
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15355
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KA wrote:
jimmy p wrote:
I really think its at least 5k overpriced.
Phone a few dealers pretend you own the car and looking to sell, see what the best offer is, think it will bring a little reality to your car shopping.


Hi Jimmy

Wow, that seems a lot - closest car I have seen is one very similar in black at portiacraft near where I work, that’s got 56k on the clock and on for £32k... I do feel it is at the top end price wise based on my (limited) knowledge. I am hoping to get the price down a bit but don’t know what is a reasonable expectation. I know it’s the old thing of if you don’t ask you don’t get but don’t want to put in a daft offer way below what they are asking... any suggestions?


let the ppi inspection lead you there may well be a couple of K needs spending on it at some point you can use that as a negotiation point or get the work done by them or preferably by your indy which they foot the bill for. Its the low miles thats throwing guys off with the price as you dont often see them that low for the year and when you do they always carry a premium it is toppy price wise but its from a dealer with low miles so that will always be more. not sure if I agree 5k over maybe 2 or 3k over but if they had to spend 2k on it that the ppi finds its money you wont have to spend if you can then get another 1k off Imo you have a bit of a result.but a lot depends on what the ppi finds if its good and nothing to spend then your in a position to try for 2k off the price . but I would lay money that at minimum the ppi picks up a new tandem pump and maybe a few corroded coolant pipes Thumb Thumb
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Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
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jimmy p
Montreal


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
Posts: 518
Location: Notts / Derbys


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check out RSJ Porsche website stocklist. They are top end specialist and give you a proper warranty.
They also have a good selection of 997's in stock.
_________________
2007 987 guards red
Ex
987.2 Boxster Spyder manual, buckets, spyder alloys,pse
981 Platinum silver
1999 996.1 c2 aerokit in white
1996 993 c2 polar silver
2002 996 c4s seal grey
 
  
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Marky911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2580



PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi KA,

I know nothing about 997s or their value, but regarding the PPI, I'm not sure Jamie (Nelson) does PPIs. I've been a mate and customer of Jamie's for over 15 years now and he always says he doesn't get involved with PPIs as everyone's standards vary and also the fact that these engines can appear perfect one day, but then go wrong the next. Why risk his name when he doesn't need to.

That leaves Redline or there's a main dealer down there now isn't there?

Redline Racing in Thornaby are in the "If you have to ask you can't afford it" camp. Their main line of business is turning up at race meetings such as the Carrera Cup, with a few cars where the drivers pay thousands for the support.

I had a rattle on my GT3 once. Popped in their as they're "experts". They had a look and tried a few things which went nowhere, then charged me £100 saying they'd need to drop the engine.
I later found out, when I sold it, that in actual fact it's just a quirk of the mk1 camshafts and all mk1s do it.

So anyway. Short version of that is, Jamie is great, so by all means ring him and if no ppi then at least use him for servicing etc. Redline are very expensive and seem to know more about Cup cars than road cars.
OPC will be expensive and maybe not that clued on older stuff, although 997 is fairly recent.

Good luck.

PS I'd deffo be looking at gen2 cars over gen1. Gen1 997s are the worst era of 911 for borescore.
 
  
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Porschekit
Österreich


Joined: 12 Aug 2014
Posts: 955
Location: North East UK


PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KA,

PM sent.....I think you're in my neck of the woods....I have a 997.1 C4S, I could possibly give you some advice.

Thumb
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KA
Newbie


Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

let the ppi inspection lead you there may well be a couple of K needs spending on it at some point you can use that as a negotiation point or get the work done by them or preferably by your indy which they foot the bill for. Its the low miles thats throwing guys off with the price as you dont often see them that low for the year and when you do they always carry a premium it is toppy price wise but its from a dealer with low miles so that will always be more. not sure if I agree 5k over maybe 2 or 3k over but if they had to spend 2k on it that the ppi finds its money you wont have to spend if you can then get another 1k off Imo you have a bit of a result.but a lot depends on what the ppi finds if its good and nothing to spend then your in a position to try for 2k off the price . but I would lay money that at minimum the ppi picks up a new tandem pump and maybe a few corroded coolant pipes Thumb Thumb[/quote]

okay that makes good sense and is great advice. Unfortunately, the car has gone! But thanks to all the good advice on here I have no further refined my 'must have' list - I now know I want a 997.2 C4S (also a big fan of targa's but think they would be out of price range)

Will definitely be back on for advice when I find something else, ideally can do a private purchase from an enthusiast on here or a specialist garage.
 
  
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KA
Newbie


Joined: 02 Aug 2018
Posts: 20



PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marky911 wrote:
Hi KA,

I know nothing about 997s or their value, but regarding the PPI, I'm not sure Jamie (Nelson) does PPIs. I've been a mate and customer of Jamie's for over 15 years now and he always says he doesn't get involved with PPIs as everyone's standards vary and also the fact that these engines can appear perfect one day, but then go wrong the next. Why risk his name when he doesn't need to.

That leaves Redline or there's a main dealer down there now isn't there?

Redline Racing in Thornaby are in the "If you have to ask you can't afford it" camp. Their main line of business is turning up at race meetings such as the Carrera Cup, with a few cars where the drivers pay thousands for the support.

I had a rattle on my GT3 once. Popped in their as they're "experts". They had a look and tried a few things which went nowhere, then charged me £100 saying they'd need to drop the engine.
I later found out, when I sold it, that in actual fact it's just a quirk of the mk1 camshafts and all mk1s do it.

So anyway. Short version of that is, Jamie is great, so by all means ring him and if no ppi then at least use him for servicing etc. Redline are very expensive and seem to know more about Cup cars than road cars.
OPC will be expensive and maybe not that clued on older stuff, although 997 is fairly recent.

Good luck.

PS I'd deffo be looking at gen2 cars over gen1. Gen1 997s are the worst era of 911 for borescore.


Thanks Marky, I have seen several reviews of Nelsons and they back up exactly what you are saying about him being a great guy and gives a first class service. Not seen anything good or bad about redline so far so appreciate your thoughts

Cheers,

KA
 
  
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Pmac32
Newbie


Joined: 22 Sep 2017
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve used both Redline and Nelsons.
Redline are definitely more expensive and in my opinion not as good as Nelsons.
 
  
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