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maldren
Österreich


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 890



PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks both, I changed rears to 17 yesterday before driving home, definitely better and the front could probably do to be a bit softer but they're not quite so easy to change, I'll do them in a day or two.

I do suspect the rear spring could be a bit softer too, allow the dampers to travel more and work more....
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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effervesce
Newbie


Joined: 17 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:
CG swapped my springs as the cabriolet bodyshell isn't as stiff as the coupe - and what they didn't want was the shell itself to become part of the suspension which might be the case if the springs themselves were too stiff.

Which means I've got a set of Ohlins springs, taking up space in the garage if anyone wants them?


Do you know what spring rates they are and can I ask how much they were? Are they custom made or something they have in stock?
 
  
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maldren
Österreich


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 890



PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The springs I used are the standard Ohlins springs that come with the dampers, They are about £2,400 and I got 10% discount from Design911.
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Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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Counter Of Beans
Trainee


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 99
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What sort of cost are we looking at for fitting by CG? Ball park figure is fine.
 
  
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maldren
Österreich


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 890



PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They charge by the hour, (about £100 inc VAT) and it depends on what else you have done and how easy it turns out, I had all the suspension arms and inner and outer track rods replaced too but mine came apart very easily. The first day was fitting all the new parts, the 2nd day finishing off and setting it up.

It's not cheap and they do have a standard process including assessing the car 'as received' before starting work.

Their standards are very high and they are meticulous. I decided to use them as a 'one off' and I hope the suspension is now done for some years although I may still end up with softer rear springs after my summer hols.
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counter Of Beans wrote:
What sort of cost are we looking at for fitting by CG? Ball park figure is fine.


I detailed the costs in my thread (link below), have a dig through and you'll find them, IIRC it was just over four grand including all parts, not including tea.
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Marky911
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1785



PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maldren wrote:

I do suspect the rear spring could be a bit softer too, allow the dampers to travel more and work more....



I'm with you on that Mike. When I drove Craig's, one thing that stood out was when the road surface changes or you cross expansion joints and you get that slappy thud from the rear tyres.

I'm sure I read the std Ohlins rear springs supplied are something like 100 or 120lbs. I think the ones they fitted to the Porsche mag guys car were 60 ish.
Almost half. I've been telling Craig to get onto Ohlins as you shouldn't have to pay £2500 for coilovers, to then have to buy softer springs. They should be offering replacement springs to all previous buyers.
He's going to CG first for a setup and see what they say, as there was a mention of the 911 mag car now being too soft now.

I must stress Craig's is still to be setup. All camber and toe settings are all over the place until then.

The joys of modification eh. Dont know
 
  
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1777



PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just checked my invoice from CG - I've got 90Nm/mm rear and 40Nm/mm front.

Stock they're 60 front and 120 rear.
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Marky911
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. I thought 60 sounded low as I typed. Grin

So a 25% reduction on the rears. Quite a difference.
It makes you wonder why Ohlins sell the kit so stiffly sprung in the first place?
Obviously for the track lads.
 
  
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maldren
Österreich


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 890



PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:
Just checked my invoice from CG - I've got 90Nm/mm rear and 40Nm/mm front.

Stock they're 60 front and 120 rear.


Wish I'd know that before I went to CG, your car rides very well. CG encouraged me to stick with firmer settings, they stressed that Steve Bennett's car is a bit soft bet I think he went much softer than you.

I'll try different damper settings before changing anything else.

Mike
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ReDBull
Newbie


Joined: 11 Jan 2016
Posts: 45
Location: Lincolnshire


PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went down the same route. Full suspension refresh and Ohlins at CoG. It was a hefty bill at the end of my two days at CoG.
Two years down the line it feels with money well spent. The Ohlins are flawless and the road set up gives me confidence to take on uneven B roads with confidence.
Great OP and I fully agree Thumb
 
  
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Slippydiff
Monza


Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 213



PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maldren wrote:
Dammit wrote:
Just checked my invoice from CG - I've got 90Nm/mm rear and 40Nm/mm front.

Stock they're 60 front and 120 rear.


Wish I'd know that before I went to CG, your car rides very well. CG encouraged me to stick with firmer settings, they stressed that Steve Bennett's car is a bit soft bet I think he went much softer than you.

I'll try different damper settings before changing anything else.

Mike


For reference, I run standard GT3 rates (though linear, not progressive items : (30N/mm fronts and 67-70N/mm rears) on these bad boys (ex 996 GT3 R/RS racecar 3 way adjustable Ohlins) :





It's a fallacy that stiff springs are the only way to make a car handle. Many years ago, Chris at CG and I coined a phrase that "compliance is king" and when it comes to road cars, it's certainly true, and with the continued deterioration in our road surfaces, it will become a necessity.

There is however a caveat, you need a certain quality/standard of damping/damper to be able to run compliant springs and retain decent body control.

One of the quicker regular trackday attendees used my Ohlins on his Mk1 996 GT3, and whilst I knew they were perfect for the road, even I was shocked how good they were around Oulton at the 2017 RS day...
 
  
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EGTE
Imola


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 799



PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dead right, Slippy.

Exe-TC run 35 front, 70 rear.
 
  
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911munKy
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 455



PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what spring rates M030 uses?
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charandhindsa
Silverstone


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 141



PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great thread - i am also on the path to the Ohlins R&T setup on my 996t. Just coming to terms with the fact that this will be an 'unnecessary' 3.5-4.5K outlay....given there is nothing wrong with my car at present.

Saying that, does anyone run the holiness with 19" wheels? I have a set of BBS LM's on mine at the present and want to pair them with the holiness to freshen things up and get the car lower to the ground...
 
  
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demon
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 269



PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

charandhindsa wrote:
great thread - i am also on the path to the Ohlins R&T setup on my 996t. Just coming to terms with the fact that this will be an 'unnecessary' 3.5-4.5K outlay....given there is nothing wrong with my car at present.

Saying that, does anyone run the holiness with 19" wheels? I have a set of BBS LM's on mine at the present and want to pair them with the holiness to freshen things up and get the car lower to the ground...


I'd be interested to understand how Ohlins impact the 996 vs 997 on 19 inch wheels
i.e. as I understand it, the 997 has suspension revisions that allow 19 inch wheels, but that Porsche themselves would never put 19s on a 996...... does fitting Ohlins change that? (leaning towards 'no' as not even 996 Cup cars run 19s)

....only ask because most of the lighter wheels I might consider are not available in 18.... : '

(my car's currently in the garage being fitted with Ohlins as I type)
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M444TTB
Trainee


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Posts: 91



PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thread. I know I need to do something with my suspension and would really like the Ohlins kit. I’m expecting to need to do pretty much everything so getting my head around the potential cost is taking some time (and I don’t have a penny of the money at the mo!).
 
  
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ZeroH
Monza


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 232



PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i typically run 17/15 f/r on the ohlins (expertly fitted & setup by Matt @Fearns) on the road or 15/13 if smoother surfaces and its where i find it works best.... much softer than 17 and the front washes out wide very quickly and the rear won't give the stability needed when under heavy load.

ran at Spa a cple weeks ago (saw 260kmh on Kemmel) and was running 3/1 f/r and the comment from my instructor (a pro GT3 class racer) was that it still seemed to power-boat a bit... ie the rear squatted too much and the nose lifted too much... i guess stiffer springs would be the answer but for my driving level I had no complaints. Despite that, the car was pretty amazing on track, and i was astonished what he was able to get out of it... so much fun and mega pace... well into the 2min40s for reference.

ultimately theres a couple of constraining issues for most near stock/mildly upgraded awd 996tt's on track and thats lack of front tyre width, and lack of neg camber you can dial in but my car is 95% road focused so ultimately not an issue for me.
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DynoMike
Barcelona


Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 1472
Location: The Cotswolds

2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZeroH wrote:
i typically run 17/15 f/r on the ohlins (expertly fitted & setup by Matt @Fearns) on the road or 15/13 if smoother surfaces and its where i find it works best.... much softer than 17 and the front washes out wide very quickly and the rear won't give the stability needed when under heavy load.

ran at Spa a cple weeks ago (saw 260kmh on Kemmel) and was running 3/1 f/r and the comment from my instructor (a pro GT3 class racer) was that it still seemed to power-boat a bit... ie the rear squatted too much and the nose lifted too much... i guess stiffer springs would be the answer but for my driving level I had no complaints. Despite that, the car was pretty amazing on track, and i was astonished what he was able to get out of it... so much fun and mega pace... well into the 2min40s for reference.

ultimately theres a couple of constraining issues for most near stock/mildly upgraded awd 996tt's on track and thats lack of front tyre width, and lack of neg camber you can dial in but my car is 95% road focused so ultimately not an issue for me.




Interesting to read that ZeroH. Mine now runs 16F 15R as they seem to have softened up over the 600 miles since fitting. What have you ended up with geo-wise? I'm booked back into Matt's this weekend for some further tweaks on mine, 996T, Tip.


By the way, that is a searing time at Spa! Are you on Cup 2s? And is your car black? Laughing If so, think I saw it at FS back in June.
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DynoMike
Barcelona


Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 1472
Location: The Cotswolds

2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZeroH wrote:
i typically run 17/15 f/r on the ohlins (expertly fitted & setup by Matt @Fearns) on the road or 15/13 if smoother surfaces and its where i find it works best.... much softer than 17 and the front washes out wide very quickly and the rear won't give the stability needed when under heavy load.

ran at Spa a cple weeks ago (saw 260kmh on Kemmel) and was running 3/1 f/r and the comment from my instructor (a pro GT3 class racer) was that it still seemed to power-boat a bit... ie the rear squatted too much and the nose lifted too much... i guess stiffer springs would be the answer but for my driving level I had no complaints. Despite that, the car was pretty amazing on track, and i was astonished what he was able to get out of it... so much fun and mega pace... well into the 2min40s for reference.

ultimately theres a couple of constraining issues for most near stock/mildly upgraded awd 996tt's on track and thats lack of front tyre width, and lack of neg camber you can dial in but my car is 95% road focused so ultimately not an issue for me.




Interesting to read that ZeroH. Mine now runs 16F 15R as they seem to have softened up over the 600 miles since fitting. What have you ended up with geo-wise? I'm booked back into Matt's this weekend for some further tweaks on mine, 996T, Tip.


By the way, that is a searing time at Spa! Are you on Cup 2s? And is your car black? Laughing If so, think I saw it at FS back in June.
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