Elmstone Classics - Carrera 2 Manual

Ericf · 10 Aug 2018

I certainly wouldn't expect every car to have had a rebuild before I would consider it. Equally, I am one of those referred to who might have to weigh up the risk against prospective benefit. I take no offence at the suggestion that a more appropriate purchase for my current situatuon might be a Golf R, or more likely an M140i.

Each to their own I suppose but in respect of the comment that the market is dead for non rebuilt cars; my eye was caught by two, both of which were priced at circa 20k and sold pretty quickly.

Gunscrossed · 10 Aug 2018

Certainly don't think the market is dead, I know I didn't look for long but as above a few good cars I saw advertised seem to get snapped up.
And you'd expect things to slow a bit during the holidays.

Gooey36 · 10 Aug 2018

OP just for perspective I bought a very similar car (year, spec and condition) which also had IMS, RMS and a borescope inspection at 69k (odd coincidence!). It was around 12 months ago. As per my thread I got it from a dealer for much much less than 19k - however as most people have said, I'm not too far off getting back to 19k with what I've spent (suspension work, exhaust and some engine bits and bobs etc)

If it needs nothing then it's probably an ok price albeit a little high in my opinion (and I should want cars like this to fetch 20k!) however if it's going to need some suspension, exhaust or engine components/work then you need to budget this in and work out a deal. It soon adds up! Best thing would be a PPI and go from there...

Good luck!

Counter Of Beans · 10 Aug 2018

Interesting thread. The debate gets polarised between owners who've had a £15k bill for a new engine (ouch!) such as GMG, and owners who are running cars with big mileages on the original engine (cvega).
Both groups' experience reinforces their position, and yet no-one knows the real stats on the chances of engine failure.
Throw into the mix parties such as Hartech........are they experts whose word is gospel, or are they promoting their services too much?

And so we end up with "they are a ticking time bomb unless rebuilt properly" versus "just drive, it'll probably be OK, YOLO".

It comes down to how risk averse each person is, I think. Me? I'm a wimp, so I pushed my budget for a low mileage Gen 2. Had I been buying a 996 or a Gen 1, I would have only looked at cars with a full rebuild. But that's just me, I can't be doing with engine rebuilds or even the thought of them. Other folks will make a different choice and that's just as valid.

Incidentally, I had a mk7 Golf GTI, and it bored me to tears!

GMG · 11 Aug 2018

..the price for my rebuild crept up because the engineer suggests replacing anything that looks a little worn 'whilst we are in there' ! I am having everything done although they are waiting to source valve guides as we speak...tis a difficult pill to swallow when you believed you had purchased a good one...

And this is my point I suppose... if you buy one you need sufficient financial reserves to manage a major engine related issue and to pay for the almost inevitable,on any new purchase, and expensive 'bits and Bob's work.

This car has the potential to break your heart and bank account despite one taking due diligence when buying...

Griffter · 11 Aug 2018

Different buyers have different approaches to risk. Personally I'd rather buy the car I want with the spec I want, with an engine that works at the time, than limit myself no a narrower pool of cars with a rebuilt engine.

If the engine goes pop then I'll get it rebuilt to my spec by a builder of my choice. I wouldn't want somebody else to have made those decisions for me.

They're not fundamentally rubbish engines, they're fundamentally brilliant engines, but a minority let go prematurely. Although attributable in part to design constraints, nobody knows why some survive and some don't - but they're not all bad...

Think of it as a £30k car which you can get or £20k if you're lucky!

alfazagato · 11 Aug 2018

"Think of it as a £30k car which you can get or £20k if you're lucky!" summarises the situation perfectly.

GMG · 12 Aug 2018

...nope, completely misses the point;sorry!

...these cars are not £30k thus within the reach of a broader buying public who might not have the means to contend with a potential engine failure which cannot be predicted or mitigated...

Simply peddling the tired rhetoric that most should be/will be fine is at best unhelpful to the current buying audience...

I appreciate that there are no certainties in life but we know that there are fundamental and expensive flaws with these engines that extend beyond simple upkeep thus it's my view that responsible insight and advice is offered...

Dammit · 12 Aug 2018

I think that's the point though- if you buy a 996 for 15k you need a contingency plan, that plan can either be another 15k that you can spend or the ability to throw a sheet over the car and leave it for a couple of years until you want to look at it again.

Y2K · 12 Aug 2018

So GMG, by your logic and reasoning, were you 'foolish' then to buy one without rebuild?

Or did you accept the risk? Or did you not do enough homework?

I don't think anyone would disagree that these engines are flawed. But if every potential buyer takes your advice and approach, then any seller with a non-rebuilt car might as well just give them away as no one would ever buy them.

Counter Of Beans · 12 Aug 2018

GMG, aren't you really saying "buyers should beware, but the problem is understated, so they aren't fully informed"?

Isn't the real problem here that no-one knows the true statistics? Porsche have long since washed their hands of his issue, so we're relying on parties such as Hartech who have vested interest in talking up the problem, versus sellers who prefer to downplay it.

All a 996/Gen 1 buyer can do is make themselves aware of the issues (although there's no concrete data), consider their risk appetite, and their resources, and make an informed decision.

Jackzi · 12 Aug 2018

A rebuild doesn't necessarily guarantee your car will be 'bulletproof'.

In my rather protracted and laborious search for a 996 so far, I've come across one car that had a rebuild where there were other potential engine issues that may well have called for another. It needed further investigation to find out what exactly the issue was, but I had walked away at that point.

Coming back to that 996 at Elmstone, it's been for sale for ages. And at 20k for a 'regular' Carrera, I'd agree that you'd expect it to have had a fair bit of work done.

Gunscrossed · 12 Aug 2018

Marky911 said:
Gunscrossed said:

OP, there's a nice looking early car in the classifieds here for £12.5k
Just needs ambers

Click to expand...

No it doesn't. It needs a rebuild first. Keep up with what the people want man.
:grin:

That car ain't selling. Along with the other 95% on the market.

It's had a rebuild? :lol:

Marky911 · 12 Aug 2018

So it has. A good buy for someone. Well someone who doesn't want a manual obviously. :wink:

Just to clarify Eric, I wasn't aiming the "buy a golf" comment at you. I meant it for anyone who is thinking of a 996 but is petrified of an engine failure. I probably came across a bit abrupt, which wasn't intended, I just think it would be a bad move and an unenjoyable ownership experience if someone bought a car that they were so afraid of getting bills from. It would always be on their mind.

I'll butt out now though as your thread was asking about a car not whether you should buy one. :wink:

My 2p, if the car isn't a daily and you have a few quid to spend on it every now and then then go for it. If it breaks it can sit in the garage until you can fix it.
And that rebuilt car has popped up while you're searching so that's a stroke of luck. Pretty safe bet.

If on the other hand its going to be a daily car and you couldn't get your hands on £10k fast if the engine let go, then I'd probably recommend something else.

Good luck with your search. :thumb:

Gunscrossed · 12 Aug 2018

Marky911 said:
So it has. A good buy for someone. Well someone who doesn't want a manual obviously. :wink:

It's also manual :thumb:
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=129246

Elmstone Classics - Carrera 2 Manual

Ericf

New member

Gunscrossed

Spa-Francorchamps

Gooey36

Monza

Counter Of Beans

Hockenheim

GMG

Suzuka

Griffter

Hockenheim

alfazagato

Silverstone

GMG

Suzuka

Dammit

Paul Ricard

Y2K

Hockenheim

Counter Of Beans

Hockenheim

Jackzi

Silverstone

Gunscrossed

Spa-Francorchamps

Marky911

Portimao

Gunscrossed

Spa-Francorchamps

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