Rain, rain & wet door cards

Monkeynutz · 27 Jul 2018

So the rain arrived yesterday and apart from the fact I would now have to blow the dust off the lawn mower I was very happy about it.

Well, I was happy until I noticed the windows inside of my car had all misted up. I knew straight away this would be because water had gotten into it and once the rain stopped I went out to check the car.

No wet areas around the seats or any other floor area that was obvious. No water visible on the inside of the windows either. I then rubbed my hands down the door cards and sure enough the bottom of the carpet on the door card was soaking and I mean proper soaked! I was literally squeezing the water out of both driver side and passenger sides

The passenger side appears to be holding more water than the driver's side.
I checked and removed the drain plugs at the bottom of the doors and no water came out and they appeared to be dry.

I have done a little research and I have come to the conclusion that the likely issue is the membrane on the inside of the doors has perished. Is this correct? Is it best to do a proper and not inexpensive membrane replacement or are there any hacks worth investigating. (2010 C4S) Should I be over concerned about damage between now and the time I can get it repaired?

Thank you in advance.

deMort · 27 Jul 2018

Its a sheet of metal with a seal around the edges so not a foam type .

Rough time to change is about 1.5 hrs.

Run your hand along the bottom of the door card .. if damp then its pretty much this .. the seal degrades over time .

If your diy then let me know and ill do a walk through of how to change it .

How long to leave .. passenger side is the most important .. if you get water under the seat then part of the alarm system is there .. car will break down if that gets wet .

I doubt you will get that much water but i cant see your leak so cant say im afraid .

Monkeynutz · 27 Jul 2018

deMort thank you very much for your response.

It's definitely just the very bottom of the door cards. I have checked again and can't find any evidence of water getting past the door shuts. I think it is just draining through the bottom of the card and down the remainder of the door so that's a little more reassuring that it should not cause any other major problems but I will keep checking it.

I will book it into my indie asap (I will break something else if I attempt it) and at least I can be fairly confident of the reason for the leak and hopefully will not have any further expensive surprises.

Thanks again.

zagonda · 28 Jul 2018

Done mine a while ago, not to stressful......

qwerty911 · 28 Jul 2018

I have this with my driver door. Absolutely soaking in the rain. The car is under OPC warranty, but they say they can't replicate the fault! Same with both rear lights fogging up. Annoying.

Monkeynutz · 28 Jul 2018

That looks a lot cheaper than £180 per side! :thumbs: The seals are a crazy price!

Monkeynutz · 28 Jul 2018

qwerty911 said:
I have this with my driver door. Absolutely soaking in the rain. The car is under OPC warranty, but they say they can't replicate the fault! Same with both rear lights fogging up. Annoying.

They don't need to replicate the fault that's ridiculous! It's a common issue from what I read as are the lights.

They have been really picky over a couple of warranty items with me hence why I have since decided not to extend and went to an indie to get my major service done. I have heard that Porsche warranty are scrutinising claims more but I also wonder if some OPCs just don't want the less profitable work.

Magic919 · 28 Jul 2018

Getting work done under warranty is not as simple as it used to be. The lights need water pooling, not misting up.

I haven't had the door leak yet, but they have been apart often, for regulators, motor etc.

deMort · 28 Jul 2018

You could cheat a little to get it done under warrenty .. just before taking it there then hose down the door and mainly on the window so plenty of water gets into the door .. its theres a split in the membrain then you will soon get damp door cards at the base .

You could also just " make " the door cards wet at the base but i didnt say that :hand:

Warrenty these days isnt what it was .. it used to be more the Insurance type of policy , these days wear and tear comes into it and it has to be a fault .. oil leaks have to be dripping not misting , lights as mentioned above would have been covered but now have to be full of water sigh .

To be fair the the OPC and ive said this several times before so sorry but ..

The OPC accesses the " claim " they dont have a rule book just some vauge guide lines to follow ..

If they decide its warrenty they do the job and claim the money back from Porsche a day or so later .. if Porsche say thats not warrenty then the OPC is left with the bill .. hence OPC,s tend to be more cautious when agreeing warrenty.

If you have a fault that the OPC cant find or fix then Porsche will not pay for diagnosis time .. they only pay for a broken item ... so if there is no obvious fault it wont get a very long look over .. mechanics are on bonus .. they loose times on jobs like this so no incentive im afraid .

They have to prove a fault as well so fault codes , pictures etc so again Porsche can reject a claim is not enough evidence .

Phil 997 · 28 Jul 2018

duel post

c:

Phil 997 · 28 Jul 2018

Most indies are very used to seeing this, it is an issue with the 997.1 and .2 most will do an OEplus fix on it (better than what came from the factory). I have had both doors on my gen1 and PAX on my gen2 done . The carpet very quickly dries out and your sorted :thumb: :thumb:

Monkeynutz · 28 Jul 2018

deMort said:
You could cheat a little to get it done under warrenty .. just before taking it there then hose down the door and mainly on the window so plenty of water gets into the door .. its theres a split in the membrain then you will soon get damp door cards at the base .

You could also just " make " the door cards wet at the base but i didnt say that :hand:

Warrenty these days isnt what it was .. it used to be more the Insurance type of policy , these days wear and tear comes into it and it has to be a fault .. oil leaks have to be dripping not misting , lights as mentioned above would have been covered but now have to be full of water sigh .

To be fair the the OPC and ive said this several times before so sorry but ..

The OPC accesses the " claim " they dont have a rule book just some vauge guide lines to follow ..

If they decide its warrenty they do the job and claim the money back from Porsche a day or so later .. if Porsche say thats not warrenty then the OPC is left with the bill .. hence OPC,s tend to be more cautious when agreeing warrenty.

If you have a fault that the OPC cant find or fix then Porsche will not pay for diagnosis time .. they only pay for a broken item ... so if there is no obvious fault it wont get a very long look over .. mechanics are on bonus .. they loose times on jobs like this so no incentive im afraid .

They have to prove a fault as well so fault codes , pictures etc so again Porsche can reject a claim is not enough evidence .

I understand the difficulty for the OPC but it really does taint the ownership experience, at least it did for me.

Phil 997 said:
Most indies are very used to seeing this, it is an issue with the 997.1 and .2 most will do an OEplus fix on it (better than what came from the factory). I have had both doors on my gen1 and PAX on my gen2 done . The carpet very quickly dries out and your sorted

After a few hours of searching I read it being a very common issue including Caymans. I am confident my indie will do a proper fix and without the worry of complying to the limitations of the warranty. I have never experienced a leak like this on any of my cars ever so initially I was proper annoyed by it and now just accept it's one of those peculiar nuances of these cars.

deMort · 28 Jul 2018

I perfectly understand but i always try and point out both sides and haveing worked at an OPC for many years i realise they are often seen as the bad guys when in fact they are hampered by Porsche in many ways and how the system works.

Any indy can do a competent job of replaceing this , the ONLY caveat i would add for anyone doing this is put a towel / wing cover over the door appeture and mainly at the front end .. whilst removeing the wiring from this panel then its easy to scratch the door shut .

They do degrade but its also possible to have them damaged when removing the door card .. any trim tool pushed under the door card to aid removal can often go under this panel and damage the foam seal.

Phil 997 · 28 Jul 2018

deMort said:
I perfectly understand but i always try and point out both sides and haveing worked at an OPC for many years i realise they are often seen as the bad guys when in fact they are hampered by Porsche in many ways and how the system works.

Any indy can do a competent job of replaceing this , the ONLY caveat i would add for anyone doing this is put a towel / wing cover over the door appeture and mainly at the front end .. whilst removeing the wiring from this panel then its easy to scratch the door shut .

They do degrade but its also possible to have them damaged when removing the door card .. any trim tool pushed under the door card to aid removal can often go under this panel and damage the foam seal.

very good heads up Iain when my winder broke while in Germany the AA approved guy turned up and did just that and scratched my door sill about 1,5" long was very pissed off when I spotted it in the daylight the next day reported it to the AA euro cover got 100% no where re a claim they were totally and utterly disinterested I escalated it up the chain but at every level got the same shake off , I need to contact the guys in europe that did it. it didnt matter how must I shouted that it was their chosen mechanic and my contract was with them I got no where ok rant over about the AA euro vehicle cover being crap and back to the point . yes its easy to damage the sill when removing the door card if not carefull as under the door card is a metal inner panel with sharp edges. :thumb: :thumb:

Poker2009 · 29 Jul 2018

It is not a very good design (the water just soaks on the seals and it eventually crumbles), the replacement panels are not cheap and the same thing will happen again in a few years.

I put the equivalent of a shower curtain (plastic sheet membrane) inside both doors, and although I had to re-do one door (as it wasn't placed properly), I have had dry door cards ever since.

Cheap and is a permanent fix.

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