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apollokre1d
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: JayEmm on Porsche GT cars Reply with quote

A long video but I did find parts of it interesting and informative.

Open Youtube Page

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K888ETH
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He makes a lot of valid points and it's a topic that many YouTubers would shy away from in fear that they will not be on the list for the next GT car.
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JayEmm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found the response to this video very interesting. I've enjoyed a great number of Porsche products and will continue to do so.

I expected to get quite a bit of hate, if for nothing else than putting out a 34 minute long video of me standing there, talking. Instead I have people watching the whole thing and the comments section is largely from Porsche owners/customers who are mirroring what I have said.
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Porschekit
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This gentleman puts forward some valid points that a lot of us are aware of, namely that there are speculators that buy GT cars and sell them on very quickly at extortionate prices, simply because of the current hype around the mark and the fact that there are also many people who can afford to buy one (even via finance) and then move them on.
At 34 mins long it is a bit of a ramble, other than the obvious, that Porsche should do it's best to stop it happening. (although I'm not sure that's possible)
I can also remember when you could buy a Ferrari Dino for £30k and no-one would touch them, now they are £200k + so I fear that at this point in time (late spring 2018) we are stuck in a cycle which will continue for a while.
People will only pay for something that they think it is worth, hence the huge demand for vintage cars, wine, art etc. These things don't change overnight, but it is well worth reminding people that it will....once some thing new comes on the scene.......Electric cars anyone?..... Hand
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Cheib
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the valid point is that Porsche could do more to stop it...but then none of us really know whether people get blacklisted. I am pretty sure that if OPC's see a GT2 RS that they they supplied getting flipped to JZM, Top 555 etc the owner won't be getting any more cars.

To be honest the point about the Vloggers friend losing 10% on a GT3 in a year was not a great one....that's pretty much the margin you can expect on a used car in terms of dealers trade to retail price and whilst his friend bought a comfort spec car because it was what he wanted a white comfort spec 991.1 GT3 is pretty much the worst spec/colour combo you can have (from a residual perspective)....a few months ago 50% of the 991.1's for sale were that spec. If you choose to not "play the spec game" fair play to him but don't complain about it. Buy any car in a spec that isn't popular and it'll clobber you.

I'm lucky enough to have a 991.2 GT3....put a lot of spec on it because it's exactly the car I wanted...I didn't compromise. At least £5k of that spec is money up in smoke. I'm not complaining because it's exactly what I wanted and not about the £.

Also adding in the finance cost has ***** all to do with GT cars. You're borrowing money and there's a cost to that....whether it's for a house or a car. You're getting the utility of borrowing money and you're being charged for the pleasure.

Interesting vid but every OPC is different...I'm lucky I think I have a very good one.
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G2
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good video and well delivered. The great result seems to be that there are more GT cars than before and lots of them are specked “wrong” for what “enthusiasts” want. Once the speculation game slows down (already happening really), markets take a dip and 3-5 years have passed these cars will be trading at prices that mean we can buy em and mod em to what we want (gearbox aside) without concerns about resale values.....or is that just my rose tinted memory of what it was like in pre 2015 Question
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JayEmm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheib, the point about the "cash loss" of the car is more the fact that people are being mis-sold the cars from many different angles.

I think a lot of people bought them, paid very high finance payments on them, but convinced themselves "it's fine because the car isn't depreciating", but in the last year they really have. In fact in the last three months the offers coming through on a car like this changed hugely.

Finance is relevant too - although some of these cars are experiencing slow depreciation, the finance payments are disproportionately high. Possibly because finance houses are trying to insulate themselves from sudden losses?

Case in point, last year as mentioned in the video buying a McLaren 570S would have been some several hundred pounds a month cheaper than the 991 GT3 seen in the video - even though it is well known the McLaren would have been a much worse prospect from a residual POV
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is an angle which the video completely missed when assessing the values of the 991 GT3 and 981 GT4 : production numbers. They made far more of them and brought far more into the country than previous generations of GT products, and in the grand scheme of things: when supply is high any premium is going to be lower.

Finance is a bit of a red herring to the subject, but it is still legitimate to raise it in the context of what dealers may tell people because it is indeed true that most UK car buyers do use it. You do also have to look at the reverse angle though in that people who buy "keepers" tend to be in the minority that eschew it. People sitting on GTs long term and using them extensively do not tend to be anywhere near as likely to have finance on them as those buy them for 0-2 years and then move them on.

This also might help to frame the dealer attitude : do they want to sell a car to a cash buyer who will run it for 4+ years putting significant mileage on it (and who may still keep it even when they were able to subsequently buy a newer one) or do they want to sell it to someone who will buy on finance (so they make the finance commission too) then return it to then a year later with few miles so that they can sell it again as a nearly new at over book price to someone else (hopefully also on finance) and at the same time sell the original buyer another new car (finance again). Ever if there was nothing in the fairly salacious allegations that we have all heard about kick backs - the conduct of the dealers is solid business practice even it is does shaft those of us who would properly use their products if only they would sell them to us.

As is the thrust of the video though - Porsche AG in Germany themselves really are the only people who can do anything about this situation. If they were so inclined. Because it frankly isn't in the interests of anyone else downstream - not salesmen, dealer principles nor even Porsche GB nooo
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what Disco said

a useful topic to talk about but spending the 1st 19 minutes not talking about the the title of the video

then praises the flippers at OPC Silverstone Hand

finally spends 5 mins covering the GT Dealer issue before spending the last 10 mins taking about the rest of the range, not covering the key issues why there so many Carrera T's at inflated prices are for sale
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JayEmm
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Joined: 17 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silverstone got praise because they were at least honest in their "you haven't got a chance mate", rather than other deals which have strung people along for years - knowing full well they'll never give them one.

The Carrera T is a curious car but I don't feel well enough qualified to speculate as to what the situation is there. Perhaps if you can enlighten me I'll happily address it in a future video. Were dealers made to buy these, or are they customer cars sat in the hopes of selling for overs?

It is not a perfect video I freely admit, but I am happy to try and bring the topic out in to the open - something other YTers seems fearful of doing (probably for reprisal from Porsche).
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OPC's may have changed their deposit terms after Porsche Bolton got busted http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=109133

unless Silverstone have confirmed or denied to you the numbers, duration and basis of deposits they hold on Halo GT Cars, then you're making a skewed assumption

you're stating that cars are being 'mis-sold' since buyers who might be speculating, are not generating the returns they have been projecting in what is a tax free capital gain and unregulated investment opportunity.

Which is why most Car Auctioneers in particular are guilty of falsely driving up the hammer prices of cars with their claims and tactics

Past performance is not a guide to future performance, nor a reliable indicator of future results or performance

you have a nice youtube channel Thumb
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Cheib
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I deal with OPC Silverstone who I got an allocation of a GT3 from. Said it at various times on different threads...not just about GT3's. They're an excellent dealership in my opinion and have never been anything other than totally straightforward with me. I am sure others have a different opinion and experience but I can only speak for mine.

JayEmm you do make some valid point but honestly I think involving finance payments is a bit spurious. I suspect the reason McLaren cars are cheaper on finance is because they subsidise finance deals to get cars sold....Porsche don't subsidise deals on the rest of the range in general....it's why you get excellent residuals. BMW M cars used to have fantastic residuals until they went for the volume model and discounted cars through their finance deals.

I also think the background to your friends purchase of his GT3 is that the car market has definitely had a really tough time over the past year and his timing was poor...it's picked up recently but from last September through to March it was really bad. I know one major Porsche specialist dealer sold 75% less cars than they normally do on a monthly basis. And as has been said elsehwere in this thread they're really cranking up volumes of GT cars. Way more 991 GT cars delivered than 996 and 997 combined.
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