Metal flakes in oil filter

Well said wasz

I keep reading about this and wonder what people expect from an engine? I understand there have been a number of issues but when buying a 15-20 year old sportscar does one expect the engine to continue to perform at it's best beyond 100,000 miles, 150,000?

Of all the cars I have owned whether it be a mini or a 911 I don't expect the engine to go on for ever without it needing a rebuild. Ok the fact is the 996 engine will cost several times what the mini does to rebuild. But then the car did cost many times the price on a mini.

I don't really see the difference whether it be the IMS bearing or crank bearings as the cause, surely it's reasonable to expect they wear out and need rebuilding?

Even aircooled 911's need engine rebuilds at around 100,000 miles and we know they are perfect and made of gold!

Well said Wasz!

...Ok, so the advice to prospective purchasers is ;only buy a 996 @ close to 100k miles if you are happy to spend £10-12k on an engine rebuild?

Buy one, but if the engine fails because of the ims issues then what did you expect?

...really? How does this help anyone?

My advice would be; buy one if the engine has been rebuilt or the ims changed or buy one and get the engine dropped and the ims checked and replaced as required, perhaps replacing any other engine out parts as required?


My advice would not be; don't worry about a potential £10k Bill or what did you expect! Because this guidance is of no value to anyone?

You haven't answered the question - what would you change it to and how would you do it?

GMG said:

...Ok, so the advice to prospective purchasers is ;only buy a 996 @ close to 100k miles if you are happy to spend £10-12k on an engine rebuild?

Buy one, but if the engine fails because of the ims issues then what did you expect?

...really? How does this help anyone?

My advice would be; buy one if the engine has been rebuilt or the ims changed or buy one and get the engine dropped and the ims checked and replaced as required, perhaps replacing any other engine out parts as required?


My advice would not be; don't worry about a potential £10k Bill or what did you expect! Because this guidance is of no value to anyone?

Click to expand...

No. I wouldn't want to offer advice on the subject, well maybe just....

Don't buy a 996 or any Porsche if you aren't prepared for the running costs.

Don't buy any old car with close to 100,000 miles on the engine and expect it to last for ever. All engines wear out.

Don't be overly concerned about the IMS bearing as failure it's really quite rare.

Don't be overly concerned about bore score. Be aware you need to keep on top of maintenance & servicing. Cooling especially.

Get a PPI if you have any concerns.

I would say the same about any older car with a high original selling price, and relatively high cost now. Especially if it's a car that is meant to be driven briskly.

My point really was would you expect a 20 year old M car to run fault free? Old Jag, AMG Merc, RS Audi etc, air cooled Porsche?

I wouldn't. I don't really see how the 996 is more unreliable than any of the cars mentioned or more expensive to fix and keep in good condition? All the cars mentioned have recurring faults, all aren't cheap to fix.

Really how many 996 engines go pop? How many IMS bearings fail? How many get bore score? How many topics start with My car Doesn't have Bore score. We only hear about the few that do.

How many run more or less problem free for more than 100,000 miles?

Buy one knowing it's 10-12k for an engine rebuild which is no more than a rebuild on an aircooled and probably not likely to be required sooner.

Buy one because they are great to drive

Buy one because they make you look back as you walk away.

Buy one because for a 170mph, 0-60 in 5s Porsche they are great value.

Buy one because a new or nearly new car with similar performance will depreciate more than the cost of an engine rebuild in a couple of years.

Buy one to enjoy it and stop worrying about what can go wrong.

Sorry I also meant to ask OP if he had contacted Hartech and if they had offered an opinion on the cause?

GMG said:

My advice would be; buy one if the engine has been rebuilt or the ims changed or buy one and get the engine dropped and the ims checked and replaced as required, perhaps replacing any other engine out parts as required?


My advice would not be; don't worry about a potential £10k Bill or what did you expect! Because this guidance is of no value to anyone?

Click to expand...

Sorry, not necessarily true either. Mine had IMS replaced within 34,000 kms of failing. A LOT of factors involved.

The advise is, if you grew up wanting a 911. If you want to be a 911 owner, then when you can (want to) afford one then do. All models have its spend.

GMG, So what happened, purchased 3.6 Jan this year. Feb note several posts on threads berating purchase price and doubts in engineering. Then posted car up for sale in March. Then Quiet. Finely pop up with Ims woes in May. That's some timeline. To be the white knight to new purchasers, perhaps start a new thread on its repair to greatness, and receive the much deserved support and knowledge of long term posters. Who is doing the repair again?

OP, Take some comfort in updated and sorted 996 rising £2k yearly. The car was running fine enough to be taking to the Ring before oil change so promising. 18k in 18 months though, as previous wise words maybe invest in a daily, gets christened at the ring! Hoping a good outcome reached.

Imagine if you write the beamer off at the ring, you'll be thinking thank god for those metal particles. :grin:

alex yates said:

Imagine if you write the beamer off at the ring, you'll be thinking thank god for those metal particles. :grin:

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I wonder what his mate who lent him the BMW will be thinking :?:

GMG said:

...Ok, so the advice to prospective purchasers is ;only buy a 996 @ close to 100k miles if you are happy to spend £10-12k on an engine rebuild?

Click to expand...

This is my advice: Its an old car. Expect things to wear out and break.

ANY 15-20 year old car with 100k on the clock is a high risk.

The risk in a 996 is no different to any other brand of car. They are well built but not hewn from granite.

Its clear the risk is not really mitigated by replacing an IMS bearing.

The risk is only reduced by buying one with a gold (nikasil?) plated engine rebuild. And then the rebuild needs to be a new short engine or all 6 cylinders dealt with and a decent guarantee, not the lowest cost option to get it working.

IMO there is no need to rebuild the engine at 100k unless you are really risk averse. And if you are that risk averse, then maybe a 15 year old car of any make is not for you....? Maybe you have really deep pockets and really love the 996.

Yes the crank bearings will be wearing out, but that is true from the moment the engine is first started. To mitigate this I cut my oil filters open and have oil analysed, others don't bother. Each car will be different.

Don't buy one thinking you are getting a 100% solid prospect even if there is a massive book of history. This is not true of any old car.

rdodger said:

Don't buy a 996 or any Porsche if you aren't prepared for the running costs.

Don't buy any old car with close to 100,000 miles on the engine and expect it to last for ever. All engines wear out.

Don't be overly concerned about the IMS bearing as failure it's really quite rare.

Don't be overly concerned about bore score. Be aware you need to keep on top of maintenance & servicing. Cooling especially.

Get a PPI if you have any concerns.

I would say the same about any older car with a high original selling price, and relatively high cost now. Especially if it's a car that is meant to be driven briskly.

My point really was would you expect a 20 year old M car to run fault free? Old Jag, AMG Merc, RS Audi etc, air cooled Porsche?

I wouldn't. I don't really see how the 996 is more unreliable than any of the cars mentioned or more expensive to fix and keep in good condition? All the cars mentioned have recurring faults, all aren't cheap to fix.

Really how many 996 engines go pop? How many IMS bearings fail? How many get bore score? How many topics start with My car Doesn't have Bore score. We only hear about the few that do.

How many run more or less problem free for more than 100,000 miles?

Buy one knowing it's 10-12k for an engine rebuild which is no more than a rebuild on an aircooled and probably not likely to be required sooner.

Buy one because they are great to drive

Buy one because they make you look back as you walk away.

Buy one because for a 170mph, 0-60 in 5s Porsche they are great value.

Buy one because a new or nearly new car with similar performance will depreciate more than the cost of an engine rebuild in a couple of years.

Buy one to enjoy it and stop worrying about what can go wrong.

Click to expand...

Thats a pretty sound roundup! Also insure with healthy agreed value and fit a dashcam.

OP & GMG I feel your pain - no one wants at £10k plus bill on their car, especially when they haven't owned it very long.

I owned two 964 turbos, one with 85k miles and one with 65k miles. Both had to have top end rebuilds (one in my ownership after less than 2 years) the other in the POs ownership (again not that long after he bought it). Both cost well over £10k once you included ancillaries ("whilst you are in there") and that was over 10 years ago. I know of many other 964 turbo owners who had to spend similar amounts of money, and one friend spent well over £40k on his in 3 years, plus £25k to buy it! Parts were very, very expensive (and are more so now I imagine) in comparison to a 996 - try £500 a corner for replacing discs and pads. 964 turbos were only worth £20-£30k at the time but were starting to increase in value, albeit slowly back in 2008.

Did this experience put me off buying another Porsche? No. I vowed when I sold my 964 to fund my business that when I could afford it I would buy another 911. Last April I finally had enough spare cash to buy another 911 and my £20k budget got me the best 996.1 that I could find.

Like all 911s, 996s have weak spots and I was fully aware of this (if you aren't then you are a fool or a luddite as there is lots and lots of info available online). My 996 has just under 50k miles and has had the IMS seal removed but I will not replace it, as I understand that this could cause more damage than good (Baz from Hartech). I warm it up before I give it any beans and I service it annually (I only do 3k miles). I was/am well aware that I may be faced with a very large bill at some point. I still bought the 996 though as they are a great car.

As my father used to tell me "there is no such thing as a cheap Porsche!" :worship:

I rebuilt my Volvo engine at ~130,000 miles, I must have parked it next to a Porsche for long enough that it caught "engine sickness", can't be any other explanation.

Hahaha it seems there has been some healthy discussion since I've been away at the ring.

Firstly the little BMW survived 24 laps without a scratch. Performed faultlessly the whole time and, even though it was a little underpowered, it was excellent fun to thrash round.

WRT the porsche, when I bought the car I had my eyes open. I was well aware of the problems and like many replies have said my view was that it was likely to need engine work at some point. If I had bought a newer car I would've spent the money anyway on depreciation so I'll just have to suck the cost up and carry on enjoying it. My plan is to drop the engine myself then pay someone to rebuild.

I did speak to Grant at Hartech. He didn't offer a particular suggestion as to what had caused the failure. I did feel the message was a bit strongly "it's over 100k therefore it needs a rebuild" however I'm sure they see tons of these with faults over 100k and are very knowledgeable. Is there a general preference for who is best for rebuilding these engines? Hartech are often recommended afaik. I'm very interested in the 3.7.

Funnily enough the 996 is not my daily, I have a diesel car which get's more miles and punishment, I just enjoy driving it a lot