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seanyboy
Trainee


Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 52



PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive managed to source a car, I should get it next week but going to see it at Swindon opc on friday

Just by chance i seen it on the locator last tuesday night, sent a enquiry in for it, waited to 8.50 on the wed morning then decided to call, long story short there had been a few enquires, asked if the car was still available, it was so i gave them my card details for a deposit, 10 minutes later i get a call to say it was sold the previous night!!

I was disappointed as you can imagine, so called back and was told there was nothing that can be done. 1740 that evening i get another call saying the guy didn't get finance and its mine if i want it.

The cars guards red, 6500 miles, ceramics, cs, extended leather, all the usual stuff and things i cannot remember and at a price I'm still finding it hard to believe.

My only issue now is bringing myself to sell my escort cosworth!!
 
  
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1399
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squelch wrote:
That'll be gone within a week, if not by the weekend!

Now gone. Sad
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1399
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seanyboy wrote:
The cars guards red, 6500 miles, ceramics, cs, extended leather, all the usual stuff and things i cannot remember and at a price I'm still finding it hard to believe.

Congratulations! Laughing

May I ask if the engine is E, F or G-series?
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seanyboy
Trainee


Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 52



PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DRZ911 wrote:
seanyboy wrote:
The cars guards red, 6500 miles, ceramics, cs, extended leather, all the usual stuff and things i cannot remember and at a price I'm still finding it hard to believe.

Congratulations! Laughing

May I ask if the engine is E, F or G-series?


Good question and possibly one I should have asked! It’s a 64 plate car so I’m unsure what it will be, I’m guessing the g engines will be the later cars?
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3882
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seanyboy wrote:
DRZ911 wrote:

May I ask if the engine is E, F or G-series?


Good question and possibly one I should have asked! It’s a 64 plate car so I’m unsure what it will be, I’m guessing the g engines will be the later cars?


Nothing came with them from new - it is a matter of when they were replaced. But as an OPC car - the warranty is strong with that one and if anything untoward happens then your only problem will be slumming it in the loaner while they put the latest engine in yours. Thumb
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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seanyboy
Trainee


Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 52



PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disco wrote:
seanyboy wrote:
DRZ911 wrote:

May I ask if the engine is E, F or G-series?


Good question and possibly one I should have asked! It’s a 64 plate car so I’m unsure what it will be, I’m guessing the g engines will be the later cars?


Nothing came with them from new - it is a matter of when they were replaced. But as an OPC car - the warranty is strong with that one and if anything untoward happens then your only problem will be slumming it in the loaner while they put the latest engine in yours. Thumb


Ah, ok, i'll get a look friday and see what one it is, I'm guessing ones are better than other? maybe i best not ask Confused
 
  
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apollokre1d
Sepang


Joined: 06 Nov 2012
Posts: 2787
Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seanyboy wrote:
I’m guessing the g engines will be the later cars?


See earlier post from DRZ911 Thumb

DRZ911 wrote:
The G-series engine seems to be the engine to have but will be in very small quantities. F-series seems to be one step below the G-series, and E1-series is the absolute minimum. E0 engines were the ones that were recalled (so if any still left out, stay well clear).
A guy called James on PH posted the engine saga chronology last August, so many thanks to him (I hope he doesn't mind me reposting it) ...


The early GT3 cars, built up to May 14, had the original spec of MA175 engines with the prefix 'E0' (so: E01234 for example) where a handful (only) of them exhibited the conrod bolt issue (thought to be caused by the bolts not holding torque correctly, leading to the rod coming loose, punching a hole in the block, causing oil egress and the possibility of a fire). These early vehicles were subject to the 'stop sale/stop driving' recall in early 2014 and were subsequenty fitted with replacement engines. There were around 765 of these original 'E0' engines replaced, either at the factory (post May 14 as above) where cars were yet to be delivered, or at the supplying dealer where the car had been supplied already.

The replacement engines (and, indeed, engines fitted in series production for the remainder of MY14) were effectively to an updated MY14 specification which carried the prefix 'E1' (so: E11234 for example). They were built wth an 'optimised conrod bolt' but it is thought that there were also process changes in the factory to more accurately control the torquing of the bolts during engine assembly. I don't think there have been any reported incidences of any 'E1' (or later) spec engines exhibiting the conrod bolt issue.

However, as these 'E1' spec engines were used and increasingly subjected to in-service operations, including track work, a small proportion of them began to exhibit a top-end wear problem (wear on the rocker fingers/followers and/or on cam lobes). This was signalled to the driver by the illumination of a 'reduced performance' warning light, itself triggered by the wear in the upper valvetrain area causing a small timing issue at high engine rpm (typically 8500 rpm and above). Although the incidence of these failures is believed to be small, it appears that the root cause was a combination of insufficient lubrication in these areas combined with an incorrect or insufficient depth of the very hard 'diamond-like coating' (DLC) on the interfacing surfaces. It is likely that this design or process deficiency was also present in the original, pre-replacement engines but never came to light because of their relatively short in-service period.

In instances where these 'E1' spec engines have failed, they have typically been replaced with a new unit - generally being to the MY15 'G' spec engine (see two paragraphs below). It is these cars, believed to be very small in number, which produce the stories about cars having two replacement engines; the original replacement to overcome the conrod bolt issue and a second change to address the upper-valvetrain lubrication/wear problem.

In parallel to these issues becoming known on the MY14/'E1' spec engines, Porsche updated the engine again with a series of running-changes which were introduced at the start of MY15. These engines carry an 'F' prefix. The modifications are thought to include changes to address the emerging lubrication issue (incluidng uprated camshafts and followers/fingers) and some new ECU parameters to modify oil pressures under specific conditions. I think that the number of reported issues with valvetrain wear on 'F' spec engines is very low, although more time in-service is required to give complete confidence.

Finally, for MY16 (yes, there were a few cars...) a 'G' specification of engine was introduced. This went further than the mods introduced in the 'F' spec and incorporated additional engineering changes that had been developed for the MA176 RS engine, including a new oil pump and filter arrangement.

It is thought that, where 'E1' or 'F' engines show evidence of the lubrication and valvetrain wear problem described above, these units will be replaced with the latest 'G' spec (RS based) engine design, and that this approach forms the basis of the 10-year engine warranty that Porsche has spoken about (and which is expected to be formally confirmed by Porsche GB in the coming weeks).

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seanyboy
Trainee


Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 52



PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

apollokre1d wrote:
seanyboy wrote:
I’m guessing the g engines will be the later cars?


See earlier post from DRZ911 Thumb

DRZ911 wrote:
The G-series engine seems to be the engine to have but will be in very small quantities. F-series seems to be one step below the G-series, and E1-series is the absolute minimum. E0 engines were the ones that were recalled (so if any still left out, stay well clear).
A guy called James on PH posted the engine saga chronology last August, so many thanks to him (I hope he doesn't mind me reposting it) ...


The early GT3 cars, built up to May 14, had the original spec of MA175 engines with the prefix 'E0' (so: E01234 for example) where a handful (only) of them exhibited the conrod bolt issue (thought to be caused by the bolts not holding torque correctly, leading to the rod coming loose, punching a hole in the block, causing oil egress and the possibility of a fire). These early vehicles were subject to the 'stop sale/stop driving' recall in early 2014 and were subsequenty fitted with replacement engines. There were around 765 of these original 'E0' engines replaced, either at the factory (post May 14 as above) where cars were yet to be delivered, or at the supplying dealer where the car had been supplied already.

The replacement engines (and, indeed, engines fitted in series production for the remainder of MY14) were effectively to an updated MY14 specification which carried the prefix 'E1' (so: E11234 for example). They were built wth an 'optimised conrod bolt' but it is thought that there were also process changes in the factory to more accurately control the torquing of the bolts during engine assembly. I don't think there have been any reported incidences of any 'E1' (or later) spec engines exhibiting the conrod bolt issue.

However, as these 'E1' spec engines were used and increasingly subjected to in-service operations, including track work, a small proportion of them began to exhibit a top-end wear problem (wear on the rocker fingers/followers and/or on cam lobes). This was signalled to the driver by the illumination of a 'reduced performance' warning light, itself triggered by the wear in the upper valvetrain area causing a small timing issue at high engine rpm (typically 8500 rpm and above). Although the incidence of these failures is believed to be small, it appears that the root cause was a combination of insufficient lubrication in these areas combined with an incorrect or insufficient depth of the very hard 'diamond-like coating' (DLC) on the interfacing surfaces. It is likely that this design or process deficiency was also present in the original, pre-replacement engines but never came to light because of their relatively short in-service period.

In instances where these 'E1' spec engines have failed, they have typically been replaced with a new unit - generally being to the MY15 'G' spec engine (see two paragraphs below). It is these cars, believed to be very small in number, which produce the stories about cars having two replacement engines; the original replacement to overcome the conrod bolt issue and a second change to address the upper-valvetrain lubrication/wear problem.

In parallel to these issues becoming known on the MY14/'E1' spec engines, Porsche updated the engine again with a series of running-changes which were introduced at the start of MY15. These engines carry an 'F' prefix. The modifications are thought to include changes to address the emerging lubrication issue (incluidng uprated camshafts and followers/fingers) and some new ECU parameters to modify oil pressures under specific conditions. I think that the number of reported issues with valvetrain wear on 'F' spec engines is very low, although more time in-service is required to give complete confidence.

Finally, for MY16 (yes, there were a few cars...) a 'G' specification of engine was introduced. This went further than the mods introduced in the 'F' spec and incorporated additional engineering changes that had been developed for the MA176 RS engine, including a new oil pump and filter arrangement.

It is thought that, where 'E1' or 'F' engines show evidence of the lubrication and valvetrain wear problem described above, these units will be replaced with the latest 'G' spec (RS based) engine design, and that this approach forms the basis of the 10-year engine warranty that Porsche has spoken about (and which is expected to be formally confirmed by Porsche GB in the coming weeks).


Thanks for that, quite an informative read.

Does anyone know if the engine troubles arise on how the car has been driven with regards to track use?
 
  
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1399
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seanyboy wrote:
Thanks for that, quite an informative read.
Does anyone know if the engine troubles arise on how the car has been driven with regards to track use?

The general rule is that the harder the cars are driven, the more likely there will be accelerated wear in this design of engine which may lead the OPC to conclude that an engine exchange is needed.

In terms of my own OPC, they sold eleven 991.1 GT3 cars. All needed the engines upgraded to E1 at the time. Not one has failed since.

So in my opinion, to date the faults are often only revealed under 'hard' driving.

So the engine warranty goes to 10 years, and this can be extended under normal warranty terms for another 5 years. Nothing really to worry about at all so long as the later level G-series terminates the problem. If it doesn't, then future resale values may be affected. That is really the only risk that you are taking at this point.

Enjoy the new car. Laughing
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david_yorkshire
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 284
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

both of my engines that went, did it on track - and exactly 2 years apart
(an E and a G series engine)

Not all G series engines have the fix.

and as for slumming it in a loan car - I had a brand new 718s to play with, with lots of toys.
 
  
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short-shift
Newbie


Joined: 15 Apr 2013
Posts: 31



PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really ought to update my 991.1 GT3 engine saga post but, as David himself has explained elsewhere on here, there have indeed been further top-end/valvetrain/DLC failures experienced with G-spec engines; disappointing.

It seems that the safe cut-off is from G05374.

I guess that will be the definitive 'safe' serial number - well, until somone comes along with a later one that has failed!

Nice to have the peace of mind that comes from the warranty, though. Not just the 10 year foc-offer from Porshe but also the ability to continue with a Porsche 'approved warranty' through to the car being 15 years old - so plenty of time under cover in which to bag your replacement unit.

James

Last edited by short-shift on Mon May 07, 2018 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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seanyboy
Trainee


Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 52



PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info guys, being all new to this it all helps.
I went and seen the car on Friday at Porsche Swindon, to say I was blown away was an understatement, the car is unmarked and high spec.
It also benefits from PPF which I believe was carried out by Topaz Detailing, new tyres, just serviced and opc warranty until November 2020.
I was to excited to check the engine number also!
The whole day was a great experience, both the salesman Matt and the sales manager James took the time to show me around both the Porsche and Ferrari centres.
It’s my first Porsche and really looking forward to ownership, a bit of a step up from ford ownership!
 
  
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3882
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seanyboy wrote:

It’s my first Porsche and really looking forward to ownership, a bit of a step up from ford ownership!


Welcome to the asylum. I think that you are going to like it here... Thumb
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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david_yorkshire
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 284
Location: Herts


PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grand !
enjoy it
they really are great cars;
its reassuring to have the 10yr engine warranty in place, and that it can be extended to 15 years; I'd be surprised that a car that gets to 15 years will develop a fault that could be attributed to the DLC issue. Everything fails at some point !
 
  
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seanyboy
Trainee


Joined: 22 Aug 2014
Posts: 52



PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks David, was hoping it would have cane Friday past but now not coming until next Saturday, they weee having trouble with the transport company, it’ll be a long week but can’t wsit until Saturday to see it again.
 
  
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