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Turbocharger upgrades

Tom. I believe it's a 3.8
 
Joel's car has the smaller turbos as he did not want additional lag. Uses car for fast road hooning
 
Thanks for the input lads!

Faried, I'd say you've got exactly the experience I'm looking for, thanks for your input!

Would I need a different fuel system than a single walbro if running the 3071s? Also, what kind of power does a pair produce on a 3.6?

I've also been looking at aquarist and different fuels, but where can you source the fuels from? The only place I've found is E85 from demontweaks at £100 for 25l! :eek:

At present then I'm leaning towards the 3071s, although I keep wondering how much the lag issue is overcome by retarding the timing lower down..

Its a shame you can't sample before you buy!
:grin:
 
Andrew

I would say you will require dual walboro, esp when they come on boost at the higher levels. I personally had to have a full custom fuel system but going for big bhp so a little different from your application possibly

I know Joels car on 3071's is well in excess of 800 useable, IE no race map, special fuel etc - every day reliability etc

I always run on Shell VPower and this is what the car is mapped to currently and what 9e reccomend i put in if possible. Can run 109 if needed tho. However i am more than happy with Shell V pump fuel

I run aquamist for cooling and it REALLY keeps the IATs down when going for it

NOTE - Air starvation, we had some issues when really going for it on full boost and had to rethink some of the intake system to accomodate the demand

Being up front, the lag for me is nothing really, I just love the utter grunt that almost makes you scream.... christ you just need to hold on and before you know it, warp speed is there. It comes on so fast and stong, it really is scarey, any gear any speed as long as you are aware of where the boost will come and you are sensible with the RPM

I required custom drive shafts, LSD, intake pipework, fuel rail, quite a few modified bits and bobs etc. Anything above 800-850 bhp and you are risking the gearbox without associated works

You ever down South, you are welcome to let me know

Try before you buy --- ummm but i dont think i wil ever be satisfied !

I love the fact that the car can both surprise me and ***** me up in equal mesaure. Some people are actually scared of the car, or maybe its my driving ability LOL

Goodluck
 
I went for a twin Walbro system too. It was a stage 3 kit from Silly Rabbit;

http://sillyrabbitmotorsport.com/Fueling-Upgrades/996-turbo-fueling/996-turbo-fuel-system

It is American so quality is 90% there but bits were not so good. The pump assembly and fuel rails were fairly nicely made and well thought out. Some of the electrical parts were not so good. My kit was missing a bit that attached the fuel level sender in the tank. The chap was adamant that I had it and refused to send it to me so Fearnsport had to fabricate something. Not great service considering the cost. Also the pipe fittings and lines were not up to Fearnsport standard so they were skipped. Matt said they looked like they had come from the hose pipe department in B&Q. When he showed me the parts he wanted to use instead it was an easy decision. To be fair same thing happened with the lines that came with the Tial turbos :floor:

When you start chasing more power AWD is no longer an option. You really do need to take the front diff out and grow a pair of big balls. In fairness RWD is SO much better and not the handful you would think it should be. With this in mind if we had known at the time I ordered the silly rabbit kit we would have run lines straight out of the bottom of the tank to an inline pump. Far cheaper and cleaner. You would need the tunnel space for this which is gained with the diff removed.

As for fuel. I have brought some meth and deionised water from here;

http://www.chemiphase.co.uk/methanol-99-85-virgin-grade-including-delivery/

MS109 can be purchased from here + a few others;

http://www.trackstuff.co.uk/VP MotorSport 109.htm

MS109 is more expensive than standard Vpower but you would likely run a blend with Vpower and only for special occasions. I am sure ES could give you a separate map that you could load with your Cobb device?


As Faried mentions meth injection gives a better solution in many ways as it also offers a huge advantage of extra cooling. You do not need to use the injection for massive fueling gains all the time. Again with a separate map you could use a 25% blend day to day for the cooling benefits and save the richer blend for race day. This is easier for me of course as I can swap maps with my cruise control stalk rather than having to physically load a different map.

Also I could be wrong as I have not researched E85 in much detail but I am fairly sure your fuel system has to be designed for it. I am talking injectors, filter, cooler, lines, pump....

Faried mentions intake. I am sure you told me your car already runs a maffless tune but if you are running stock pipework then you will likely need to change that to benefit from the bigger blowers. You will want cones closer to the turbos as has been done many times. Then you start to move on to intercoolers etc.... It never ends but you know that :grin:
 
Tom is spot on re the silly rabbit fixings. Totally sub standard and were not used on my car either
 
This forum is truly superb at times :D

Lots to think about here... I was thinking about the intercoolers actually. Does anyone know what the max flow of the GT2RS coolers is? This is likely to make the decision for me as to whether I need to change the coolers or not. If they will match the flow of the 3071s then I'll likely stick with them initially.

However if they are way down on flow then there's little point changing the blowers without the coolers.

I've read through both your (Tom/Faired) build threads several times over the past couple of days :grin: Inspiring stuff!

On fuelling, the SillyRabbit stuff is obviously a well trodden path. I'll have a look at that but might even consider making this a longer term project and fabricate some of this stuff myself (or try to!).

Not keen on the RWD/no PSM thing given how easy it is to brake traction with its current set up :eek: I'm sure I'll come round to the notion eventually....
 
I am no expert. I would say the gt2rs coolers would not exceed approx 650 bhp however I am no expert and have no details on on flow

You could start coming with them and take the data and change accordingly

If you have a maual gearbox. Then a lsd is a must
 
GT2RS IC are good for upto 620bhp, beyond this look at other solutions.
 
A3071's are very good, they spooled on my 997 like the stock vtg's.

I would say they are still baby snails though, I ran them with a completely stock 997tt fuel system for a few months until I could be ass'd to drop the engine. I was still achieving good numbers just with 100% meth via aquamist.

I eventually installed 1100cc injectors and have been using them for years until my car has finally come to the operating table again.

Im not sure what the 996 stock fuel system is like though.

One thing I would say, is to go with actual 3071 and not the alpha's, I suffered problems with boost regulation and boost creep due to the internal gates and eventually had to close them off and go external. I now run tial 44 mvr wastegates and they regulate perfectly (and give a nice firework show).

Standard 3071's should be cheaper and should cover the cost of some nice V Band manifolds which will save you money later when you want to upgrade to 35's... :D

As for intercoolers, I went with the AMS set up, its really great and I think the price has come down a lot since they first launched. The Do88 counterpart looks to be an exact copy, and I don't think there is much price difference between them, also considering the AMS coolers come with a Y pipe.
 
When it comes to forced induction.
For the most accurate outcome for the demand, using comprehensive flow mapping software will make your choice far easier. As a result, you'll end up with information on the correct Compressor/Exhaust wheel relative to the turbo housing.

You can then either build your own turbo(extremely fun to do), adjust your existing to hybrid form or gather technical sheets of the turbos on the market and buy which ever one is closest to the parameter that you require.

The key is to get the correct software as some of them are completely useless.

Best

Si


:thumb:
 
Ref Intercoolers;

Bare in mind also that many use the GT2RS intercooler not just because they are efficient but also that they are light.

4.5 inch and above intercoolers are heavy things but serve an application.

Ps. The maximum holding pressure of the GT2 RS coolers is 1.6/1.7 bar before they begin to separate.
 
116618LN said:
A3071's are very good, they spooled on my 997 like the stock vtg's.

I would say they are still baby snails though, I ran them with a completely stock 997tt fuel system for a few months until I could be ass'd to drop the engine. I was still achieving good numbers just with 100% meth via aquamist.

I eventually installed 1100cc injectors and have been using them for years until my car has finally come to the operating table again.

Im not sure what the 996 stock fuel system is like though.

One thing I would say, is to go with actual 3071 and not the alpha's, I suffered problems with boost regulation and boost creep due to the internal gates and eventually had to close them off and go external. I now run tial 44 mvr wastegates and they regulate perfectly (and give a nice firework show).

Standard 3071's should be cheaper and should cover the cost of some nice V Band manifolds which will save you money later when you want to upgrade to 35's... :D

As for intercoolers, I went with the AMS set up, its really great and I think the price has come down a lot since they first launched. The Do88 counterpart looks to be an exact copy, and I don't think there is much price difference between them, also considering the AMS coolers come with a Y pipe.

Really interesting, thank you! I had read on the American boards about problems with the wastegates and boost control.

Interesting comment re dropping the engine, didn't you need to do this to fit coolant pipes to the turbos initially anyway or am I getting my turbos mixed up?
 
ok51mon said:
When it comes to forced induction.
For the most accurate outcome for the demand, using comprehensive flow mapping software will make your choice far easier. As a result, you'll end up with information on the correct Compressor/Exhaust wheel relative to the turbo housing.

You can then either build your own turbo(extremely fun to do), adjust your existing to hybrid form or gather technical sheets of the turbos on the market and buy which ever one is closest to the parameter that you require.

The key is to get the correct software as some of them are completely useless.

Best

Si


:thumb:

Thanks Simon, the problem with getting technical sheets is that most turbo manufacturers won't publish them. Its their IP and they don't want chinese clones to ruin their marketplace.

I would like to make bespoke turbos though but I think its much more reliable for me to go with a tried/tested supplier :thumb:
 
ragpicker said:
116618LN said:
A3071's are very good, they spooled on my 997 like the stock vtg's.

I would say they are still baby snails though, I ran them with a completely stock 997tt fuel system for a few months until I could be ass'd to drop the engine. I was still achieving good numbers just with 100% meth via aquamist.

I eventually installed 1100cc injectors and have been using them for years until my car has finally come to the operating table again.

Im not sure what the 996 stock fuel system is like though.

One thing I would say, is to go with actual 3071 and not the alpha's, I suffered problems with boost regulation and boost creep due to the internal gates and eventually had to close them off and go external. I now run tial 44 mvr wastegates and they regulate perfectly (and give a nice firework show).

Standard 3071's should be cheaper and should cover the cost of some nice V Band manifolds which will save you money later when you want to upgrade to 35's... :D

As for intercoolers, I went with the AMS set up, its really great and I think the price has come down a lot since they first launched. The Do88 counterpart looks to be an exact copy, and I don't think there is much price difference between them, also considering the AMS coolers come with a Y pipe.

Really interesting, thank you! I had read on the American boards about problems with the wastegates and boost control.

Interesting comment re dropping the engine, didn't you need to do this to fit coolant pipes to the turbos initially anyway or am I getting my turbos mixed up?


Protomotive sells a line kit with adaptors for the 997 stock lines. The only line you have to run is one coolant line each side to the T at the turbo water feed.

Saves you from dropping the engine but the line kit was expensive, I think 11-1200 usd. if I were to go back I would have just dropped the engine (Since its so easy) and fabricated lines for 150usd.

Here is a picture of what the adaptors look like for the 997.

7qkJFiu.png
 

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