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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all.

I went out to my car and drew this:



Which appears to tally up with the wonderful Kelly Anne Porsche image http://www.kellyanneporsche.com/enginedrop.htm:



Note this is an early 3.4 without secondary air or exhaust valves.

"dunno ?" top left in my pic must go to the vacuum reservoir. I pulled the line off the pierburg valve above the alternator that goes to the t piece and there was vacuum present. I plugged the line with my finger and the car idled the same, hunting and a bit high (1000 and just over), maybe there is an issue further back... I could try and plug the line from the intake (vac source).

The line from intake to black and white valve is the one I disturbed and reconnected when doing the AOS, it slipped back on very easily. hmmm.

I sprayed some carb cleaner on all the joins in the intake I could get to too and hard to tell as it hunts anyway but not really any change. I couldn't get to the big vac line connections on the aos.

I might try and build a smoke machine to test for leaks?

To pull codes I need to borrow a windows laptop....I forgot about durametric when I got a mac....its been so long since I needed it.
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7018
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you replace the dunno with the vacuum cylinder then it is correct. The white/black cylinder is a one way valve. The intake vacuum sucks air out of the reservoir, the one way valve keeps it there. The reservoir does what it says and the valve with the wire turns the vacuum on and off.

MC
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
If you replace the dunno with the vacuum cylinder then it is correct. The white/black cylinder is a one way valve. The intake vacuum sucks air out of the reservoir, the one way valve keeps it there. The reservoir does what it says and the valve with the wire turns the vacuum on and off.

MC


Thanks that all looks correct. Although there are some reports on US forums of the vacuum reservoir cracking and leaking bit, and my rubber connections are looking a little past it but seem OK.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borrowed a laptop just now:

P1602
Factory fault code 108 - power supply
Open circuit

P0506
Factory fault code 32 - idle air control - engine speed too low

P0150
Factory fault code 18 - oxygen sensor ahead of catalytic converter (cylinders 4-6)
Short circuit of wires or limited voltage increase

P0102
factory fault code 115 - mass air flow sensor
Below lower limit

P0112
Factory fault code 124 - intake air temperature circuit
Low input


These must have been logged since I reconnected the battery - I'm guessing disconnecting the battery for 3 months clears the codes? The first code must be for this (?)

The last two will be from when I pulled the MAF to see the effect (engine stumbled then adjusted).

I watched the live values from the oxygen sensors and they were all changing.

Need to go for a drive again and see what is logged as it is not logging anything at idle.

Revs at idle 1040-1250 (I didn't wait long enough for it to get hot as baby called).
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only code that I think is related is P0506 and so far as I can tell it indicates a faulty idle valve or an air leak. Time to check the AOS connections I think. aaargh.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right.... made a smoke machine.

You will need:

- glass jar from uncle bens sweet n sour
- biro lid
- football pump adapter
- pump compressor thing
- rag
- baby oil
- soldering iron
- glue gun
- flexible pipe
- gaffer tape

Then:

- drill a 20mm hole in the lid of the jar and glue the soldering iron in.
- drill a 4mm hole in the lid and glue the briro lid in
- drill a 2mm hole in the lid and glue the football adapter in.
- soak the rag in baby oil, stick in jar
- screw lid on switch on
- hook the compressor up
- gaffer tape the pipe in your throttle body, wedge the throttle open

Take the lid off the oil filler.... you will see smoke puffing out. Put the lid back on.

Smoke will be puffing out of any inlet or vacuum system leaks.





My fear was confirmed..... my leak is at the lower AOS vacuum line.

I managed to pull it off and put a new o ring in (old one was hard and damaged)...still leaks. Maybe my new o ring was undersized.

Will try again when its not freezing outside.
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Last edited by wasz on Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6640
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit .. i keep missing this thread of yours tucked away in here .. sigh .

Air leak from the fault codes which you already know ..

Smoke machine .. bloody brilliant .. its a hell of a usefull tool to have in your arsenal and that young man is very impressive .

Although what you have found isnt so pleaseing .

Baby oil with pressure gives off smoke ?
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
Baby oil with pressure gives off smoke ?


+ heat from the soldering iron.

Gives off loads of smoke! and the compressor pushes it through the pipe and your inlet.

I whipped it up in about 20 minutes, inspired by a youtube video.

Have a fire extinguisher handy....
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here you go, this is what I used.

I used a 12v tyre inflater rather than a bike pump for a constant supply.

A biro lid as it fitted the pipe I had, and a football inflator pin to connect to the inflator as it was lying around.


Open Youtube Page

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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6640
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im well impressed young man .. i use a smoke machine at work .. its solved some difficult to trace problems for me .. for you to make one .. well ... Thumb

Not sure bent valves is the best use of this machine but leaks .. hell yeah !

Never had anything like this at OPC .. at indy though .. all the tricks .. learnt a lot being on this side of the fence i can tell you .
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Demort wrote:
im well impressed young man ..


Well my day job is "creative technologist" so i'm always lashing together prototypes....

Oh I nearly forgot, shiny brakes:



I had new discs and textar pads fitted all round, and new wheel bolts.

I did remove the wheels and paint the bells later.
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Last edited by wasz on Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8210
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good work with the smoke machine, I need to rig something up similar for the 944 as I suspect a vac leak somewhere.
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Marky911
Indianapolis


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 2351



PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant work on the smoke machine. Thumb
 
  
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
Good work with the smoke machine, I need to rig something up similar for the 944 as I suspect a vac leak somewhere.

Marky911 wrote:
Brilliant work on the smoke machine. Thumb


Thanks guys, it really made a "needle in a haystack" job much easier, all for 20 mins lashing together.

Some people add UV dye to the baby oil as a tiny trail of smoke may be hard to spot. I didn't have any .... or a UV lamp.

It was reading 8psi on the gauge of the compressor, which I think is way above intake vacuum so should show up any leaks with a decent smoke trail.

I used hot melt glue as I would like to use my soldering iron for soldering in future and it will clean off. I didn't have a problem with the glue melting again, but could use epoxy if I was going to use the smoke machine often.

I used a temperature adjustable soldering iron, but just had it on high all the time.

I don't think my wife has noticed I used half a bottle of baby's baby oil yet.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonight after baby bed time I had another look at this.

The new o ring I fitted was a little big so had got folded over in shoving the pipe home.

I pulled it off and fitted the next size down and it holds under the smoke test.

Very hard doing it at full arm extension when you can't get your head close to see whats you are doing, almost doing it all by feel....

I eagerly await a test drive tomorrow to see if it has calmed the idle. Fingers crossed.
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm.

Idle is the same.

Start from cold and car immediately cuts out.

Try again and revs will drop almost to stall and then it picks up and settles over 1000

No throttle added.

After a run idle is still 1000+ and doesn't drop when turning air con off

No codes logged

Tried the smoke machine again, can't see anywhere else

Removed idle control valve, cleaned gunk

Tried it on a 9v battery and 12v, some sparks but no movement in it

Is the idle valve duff?
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Last edited by wasz on Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8210
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you also check the resistance of it and supply voltage?
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
Did you also check the resistance of it and supply voltage?


Nope, what should the resistance be?

I couldn't move the valve manually. I last cleaned it out maybe 4 years ago, im sure it moved on a battery then but can't remember if it was free to manually move it

Surely it should throw a code if duff....?
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wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2925


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a bit of googling I decided the valve should move by hand, and likely the solenoid would be open circuit if failed.

I couldn't wait so went out to the car again.

I found you can open the valve up - it will come apart.

I forgot to take photos sorry!

Basically just remove the little roll pin, and turn 30 degrees and pull apart. I managed to break half the plastic tab around the roll pin....

I freed the valve half off and thoroughly cleaned it so it was completely free.

There is a spring washer and o ring seal between the two halves, it's a bit difficult to get back together as the spring washer keeps sticking to the magnet and moving out of position.

Because I'd broken half the tab, I used a blob of araldite and a zip tie to stop the two halves from rotating.

When I tried it on a battery it snapped back and forth with a loud clack. Great.

Refitted to car and it fired up perfectly and idled just under 1000. Will reserve judgement until a test drive and ive seen hot idle (and flicked Aircon off/on), but it seems much better!

The valve must have stuck from the crud and not being used for 3 months.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8210
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
The valve must have stuck from the crud and not being used for 3 months.


Hopefully that's all it is. Thumb

I had a similar issue with a crank sensor and a coolant temp sender when mine was laid up for 3 months with the engine out.
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