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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject: RS Tie Rods Reply with quote

Chaps, couple of questions regarding the above:

Has anyone replaced standard rubber based items with the RS items?

If so was it just a straight swap affair?, I know the RS hubs are different to reduce bump steer so can they be used with standard hubs?

What were the results?, a sharper more direct steering feel?, seems like a no brainer to me but as I haven't done it I thought I would ask the crew.

Pls discuss

Trev
 
  
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 278
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding is that RS tierods won't fit standard carriers and vice versa. The rods are different lengths and angles.

I think Elephant Racing does a bump steer reduction tierod kit for the standard carriers. I haven’t tried them but a contact over the Pond has and he says they work.

For sharper steering feel, you can get the standard tierods welded to bypass the rubber bushing. Center Gravity did mine. However this doesn't address bumpsteer which my car still suffers from.
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sutton wrote:
My understanding is that RS tierods won't fit standard carriers and vice versa. The rods are different lengths and angles.

I think Elephant Racing does a bump steer reduction tierod kit for the standard carriers. I haven’t tried them but a contact over the Pond has and he says they work.

For sharper steering feel, you can get the standard tierods welded to bypass the rubber bushing. Center Gravity did mine. However this doesn't address bumpsteer which my car still suffers from.


Ahhh ok, so have you lowered your car to RS ride height or below to experience bump steer?. Presumably if you installed the RS Hubs/carriers it would help remove it?.

Did welding up your tie rods make a big difference to the steering feel?.

Trev

Trev
 
  
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 278
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I'm around RS+10mm because lower than that, bumpsteer becomes even more of a problem. Once I get the bumpsteer sorted then I can go to RS height if I want to. Yes, the RS carriers will significantly reduce bumpsteer but won't eliminate it.

RS oem carriers are nla. However 9M are making some which share the same geometry as the oem carriers. BBI also make some but apparently their geometry is different. I don't know the details as I didn't follow up on these. After all, no one has complained about the RS steering.

The welded tie rods did make a slight difference (improvement) in reducing slop so the steering became more direct. It wasn't expensive so is definitely worth doing.

It's not as big a difference as adding the strut brace which was night and day on the initial turn in to a corner. The front reacted so much more quickly and precisely.
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Nimrod
Montreal


Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 550
Location: East Midlands


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Centre Gravity welded the tie rods and fitted supersport wishbone bushes and it made a big difference to my 993 .

Well worth the effort, I didn't notice a massive difference fitting a strut brace to be honest .
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Endoman
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1191
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I noticed with RS uprights and track rods is that the steering feels a bit twitchy, very direct. The steering ratio is different as the effective steering arm is shorter = fewer turns lock to lock. This feels very strange at first but I got used to it. I run quite a bit of front neg., turn in is great but if you hit the grooves in the inside lane on a motorway you really notice the tramlining. I got flamed on Rennlist for saying the steering was quicker but 9M said it would be and I've measured it and it is.
There is a method with a dowel pin or bolt through the rubber in the trackrod making them solid like the weld up.
Excellent info from Jackal:- http://www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/993/RSuprights/rsuprights.html
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Last edited by Endoman on Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 278
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can’t visualise the RS v standard setups in 3D in my head so will take your word for it!

I don't mind quick acting steering but the bumpsteer causes me to overdrive the car because I'm reacting to the bumpsteer and unsettling the car with additional steering correction.

Are you running aggressive KT? I sense we're derailing Trev's thread, let's take this offline.
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soooooo, it looks like you can keep the out portion of the tie rod to connect to the standard upright, but swap the inner portion of the standard tie rod for an RS item or even an Evo item Smile...

That sounds like the plan to me

Trev
 
  
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 278
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That works to sharpen the steering and is a more elegant approach to welding the existing bits.

If bumpsteer isn't a problem, you could probably leave any further mods on the shelf.
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993Type
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Posts: 130



PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where specifically are the outer sections available please?

I was looking for CG to weld mine but I’d prefer a solid set if these are available alone.
 
  
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 278
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the solid GT2 rods have been nla for some time. However you might strike lucky if you hunt around.

Some specialists seem to be able to get the RS rods. There are others but try Type911.
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phelix
Nürburgring


Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 456
Location: UK


PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The RS had standard inner track rod ends with the rubber insert. It was the GT2 that had the solid inners.

Pretty sure that any welding on the steering system is an MOT failure but CG does it so neatly that the MOT won't realise. Thumb
 
  
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1205
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about these chaps??, anyone tried these or something similar?.

http://www.rennline.com/Rennline-HD-RS-Style-Inner-Tie-Rods/productinfo/S-04003/

Trev
 
  
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Endoman
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1191
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used quite a bit of Rennline stuff and it's top class. Design911 carry some of their parts.
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Nimrod
Montreal


Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 550
Location: East Midlands


PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I ever take my 4s to CoG to be set up I would let Chris weld them again it made a big difference combined with the super sport bushes and I don’t believe anybody would ever spot they weren’t standard .
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993 c4s Artic silver Boxster red
997.2 c4s pdk Guards .
997.1 c2s Hartech rebuild LWF RSS mounts sold .
996 c4s Hartech rebuild- sold
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ollster
Montreal


Joined: 10 Jun 2009
Posts: 523
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: RS Tie Rods Reply with quote

Cameltoe & Heel wrote:
Chaps, couple of questions regarding the above:

Has anyone replaced standard rubber based items with the RS items?

If so was it just a straight swap affair?, I know the RS hubs are different to reduce bump steer so can they be used with standard hubs?

What were the results?, a sharper more direct steering feel?, seems like a no brainer to me but as I haven't done it I thought I would ask the crew.

Pls discuss

Trev




Its the gt2 evo tie rods you are after as the inner section that attaches to the steering rack is a solid joint rather than rubber. I changed mine about 8 years ago when they were still available and used the standard outer threaded tie rod parts as I'm at sport ride height and didn't need the whole rs carrier setup. Does make a positive difference to the steering thumbsup
 
  
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