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Bore Score on a 3.8 Gen1 - How common is it really?

Peter Morgan who is without question the go to guy for a ppi won't boroscope any car at PPI stage. They won't do invasive work on a car their customer doesn't actually own.

They also comment that there are enough external clues to bore scoring eg, sooty left pipe, oil consumption, tapping which doesn't go away after 15 seconds on start up to let them know if the car is likely to be a problem. If they think it might be a problem due to obvious external signs of Boro scoring they tell their customer to walk away at that point and save the money an invasive boroscoping would cost and put that towards another car.

Sound sensible advice imo.
 
I cant offer much advise other than to say i work on these cars .. i see very few with bore score .. a couple year over the years as a rough guess .. didnt see any last year though .

Some shows signs of scoreing on a scope check but go on for years with no problems .. Hartech are the experts to explain this and i always bow to their judgement .. im just a humble mechanic :)

If its bad then you can hear it and see it on the tail pipes without a scope check but bear in mind a sooty tail pipe can be other things .

Porsche states its got to be 5% or over before they consider it a problem and do something about it .. at least thats what i was told .

I think if i was buying one then i would have a scope check done .. if that was ok then i wouldn,t worry about it .
 
Bore Score

Touching wood as typing this-had my 3.8 4S 2 years now on a 2006 plate-was Low Miles when I bought-18k-full history and took the plunge. Not spent a penny as yet but it's due possibly £1000 this year 2 new tyres, service etc which is just wear and tear. My advice-find the best genuine car you can with the lowest miles and good history within your budget and you should be fine! Good luck with the search👊🏻
 
Phil 997 said:
resigner said:
5% sounds about right, and more importantly, there is bore score which needs a rebuild, and then there is bore score which doesn't get worse and is perfectly fine.

Don't believe the scaremongers, including some dealers (some idiot at RPM Technik who is in modern classics this month saying "don't touch Gen 1 cars, they have to many issues, we don't touch them" for example).

I have a 2007 C2S Manual Cabrio. Awesome car. Has been well looked after. I don't thrash it until it's warmed up, and change the oil every year, instead of the 2 year service. Get a good one, or one which has already had a rebuild, and enjoy an immensely talented car. Get in now while you can still afford a decent one. Prices have been climbing for a while. Mine was £30,000 almost 3 years ago. I couldn't replace it now for less than £35k.

You want, manual, C2S. PSE, Heated Seats, Sports Chrono all all nice but not essential.

It's about condition, not mileage so much. Don't be scared of a good looked after higher mileage car. You should probably get any car checked properly for Bore Score, and try and get a newer IMS car, post late 2005 (check the engine number range!)

it's about time someone really knowledgeable put this all in a pinned thread along with the engine numbers!


Phew perfect saves me writing exactily the same :thumb: OP spend less time reading the scare stories remember only the few its happened to rant on the net no one says " drove my 997 today and em well ur nothing went wrong "
the vast vast majority of these cars are sound.
Dont listen to the "they will all need a rebuild at some point" every single car of every marque will need a rebuild at some point in the next 50 years, its a stupid weak arguement and serves no purpose other than to worry potential new owners .

The 996.2 has the same potential issue so you cant negate it by doing that .
you can reduce the risk even further than 5% by buying a 3.6 997.1 manual either post March 06 or check the engine number to ensure its the newer IMS bearing , I can post that engine number info if you need it.

What is it you want from a 3.8S that a 3.6 997.1 won't offer as we may be able to point you right on some things .
I had my 997.1 for 4 years brought it on 45k sold it on 89k have it borscoped and it was clean as a whistle.
As resigner says most cylinders will get normal age related score thats not the same as borescore caused by the coating off the liners coming off but it is often misdiagnosed as so by people who are not specialists in the field , this only adds fuel to the fire about borescope.
What you MUST do is get an independant PPI and borescope to be sure your getting a good car then follow the risk minimising proceedures widely discussed
millers 10w50 nano oil, let, fully warm up under 3000rpm before hooning.
and then just relax and enjoy 911 ownership like the many many thousands of 997.1 owners do.
I still ended up writting a novel despite resigner covering half of it already.

:grin: :grin:

Your turn to go first next time Phil :p

OP, at a £25k budget, you won't get low miles, nor should you worry about it. Condition is so important. If it doesn't feel right, walk away. I walked away from a car which was missing a few wheel balancing weights. No idea how long they had been missing, but really shouldn't be the case! Be patient, keep searching, genuine good cars at your budget do come along. If it's had an IMS done, then you go into the 2004/2005 years as well. Lots of them have had it done by now.

Bore Scoring is gradual, an IMS which lets go blows it all to pieces.......... They are both potentially engine rebuilds, but IMS does it without warning.....
 
I am amazed that someone like RPM would be that stupid to let someone in their business say that. Its a bit like a milkman saying that the milk that he depends on for his livelyhood is crap and if you have already brought some your stupid. What a ridicules thing for a Porsche specialist who sells peoples cars on sale or return to say in print. and the fact they recently sold a silver 07 gen1 means what, they only decided last week over coffee in the smoking shed they werent going to touch 997.1 any longer

Don't believe the scaremongers, including some dealers (some idiot at RPM Technik who is in modern classics this month saying "don't touch Gen 1 cars, they have to many issues, we don't touch them" for example).
 
OP, in answer to the 'How common?" question the answer is not very. But running a 911 ain't cheap. Expect bills. The obvious stuff will be rads, condensers, coffin arms, brakes and other general maintenance. Sure you may be unlucky and need a cylinder lining rebuild. But imho that's the water cooled equivalent of an air cooled top end rebuild.

I'm in the position currently where it is possible I may need to sell my low mile turbo to provide cash for our impending house move. (Fingers crossed I don't). But if I did I'd happily buy a high mile 3.8S as a substitute as I think they're a performance bargain right now. 👍
 
Demort said:
I cant offer much advise other than to say i work on these cars .. i see very few with bore score ..

If its bad then you can hear it and see it on the tail pipes without a scope check but bear in mind a sooty tail pipe can be other things .

What else can cause a sooty exhaust pipe?
 
Lovely looking car but I just wouldn't trust a ceramic ims bearing .

It's not got Bose and has a dynavin head unit by the looks.

No sports chrono either.

Is that your budget?
 
What does sports chrono do on a manual, apart from giving you a little clock at the top of the dash?
 
jerzybondov said:
What does sports chrono do on a manual, apart from giving you a little clock at the top of the dash?
Sports suspension and a better throttle response.

It's great :grin:
 
Alfaian said:
jerzybondov said:
What does sports chrono do on a manual, apart from giving you a little clock at the top of the dash?
Sports suspension and a better throttle response.

It's great :grin:

Changes the throttle response yes, but the S has PASM as standard. The sports Chrono just engages the sport mode in PASM automatically. You can do the exact same on a none chrono c2s by just pressing the PASM button.

Better explanation here:

http://philipraby.co.uk/2012/07/06/sport-chrono-package-plus-a-great-porsche-997-option/

Just my personal thoughts on boroscope, save the money. Buy a genuine car with good provenance and history from a trusted Specialist and you will be fine. The specialist wont by a car they have to warranty that they think could have major cost / rebuild issues and their the experts with the knowledge and ultimately the people taking the risk.

Besides a boro scope inspection is only valid for the moment its done. As soon as you drive the car it could then score. Bit like an MOT. The car can pass flying colours but 500 miles down the road a component fails which would subsequently make it fail the MOT test.

My advice is buy a good car, from a good dealer, and enjoy a good time :thumb:
 

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