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How to make a 997.1 reliable ?
- Thread starter uk996
- Start date
alex yates said:
Always good to have a guy .
my mobile Porsche tech was similar prices I supplied the millers nano 10w50 ( brought on a promo offer from opie oil) he supplied the other things , no vat on his labour and a stamp in the book. fully OPC time served and I like Alex trust him with everything on my car. The key is finding someone you trust that wont take the "P"
bazhart
Barcelona
- Joined
- 20 May 2009
- Messages
- 1,343
As we seem to be getting mentioned - I thought perhaps I should chip in.
IMS in my view only the larger bearing without a seal (that can only be fitted to a smaller bearing engine by rebuilding it) is sufficiently reliable - OR a solid oil fed bearing (that can be fitted to any model without stripping and rebuilding - but is expensive).
Regarding lifespan, plastic coated pistons gradually wear the coating off, cylinders go oval increasing bore clearances and piston face temperatures, cylinder surface finishes deteriorate releasing hard silicon particles to run between the piston and cylinder bore face. The piston coating and cylinder surface quality varies.
The loads applied to the piston and cylinder faces on the thrust side (i.e.torque) increase the rate of wear and shorten the time to damage - but even with bore scoring - cars can be driven for several thousand miles before it becomes obvious.
So many engines have good quality cylinders and piston coatings, LTT, are driven sympathetically, have good maintenance and frequent oil changes and last a very long time.
At the other end of the spectrum some have poorer piston coatings and cylinder bores, are driven aggressively from cold and have poor maintenance and infrequent oil changes and fail early.
The mixture of quality, driver style and maintenance can make any car more or less likely to have problems. A good basic car treated poorly may last as long as a poor basic car treated well.
With the right care and driver styles, the majority of engines will last long enough to come under the normal eventual rebuild classic car scenario mentioned above. Unfortunately some - even with the greatest care and attention, driver styles and FSH maintenance - will still suffer prematurely.
This makes predictions and statistics impossible to quantify accurately since the random nature of the quality issues throws a spanner in any figures anyone comes up with - as it still means you may be lucky or unlucky with your car whatever the figures you believe in state and whatever you do with it and to it.
I think that what is more important than trying to predict when any particular engine will fail (which is impossible) is to recognise that it CAN happen and if it does there are different rebuild options some of which are better than others or more or less expensive than others and some of which offer better long term solutions and even improved performance – so as long as owners understand the situation they have plenty of options available if they ever need them – which is a whole lot better position to be in than if the only option is an engine to the same specification of the one that has failed and could do so again at a price that is probably the most expensive available.
Baz
IMS in my view only the larger bearing without a seal (that can only be fitted to a smaller bearing engine by rebuilding it) is sufficiently reliable - OR a solid oil fed bearing (that can be fitted to any model without stripping and rebuilding - but is expensive).
Regarding lifespan, plastic coated pistons gradually wear the coating off, cylinders go oval increasing bore clearances and piston face temperatures, cylinder surface finishes deteriorate releasing hard silicon particles to run between the piston and cylinder bore face. The piston coating and cylinder surface quality varies.
The loads applied to the piston and cylinder faces on the thrust side (i.e.torque) increase the rate of wear and shorten the time to damage - but even with bore scoring - cars can be driven for several thousand miles before it becomes obvious.
So many engines have good quality cylinders and piston coatings, LTT, are driven sympathetically, have good maintenance and frequent oil changes and last a very long time.
At the other end of the spectrum some have poorer piston coatings and cylinder bores, are driven aggressively from cold and have poor maintenance and infrequent oil changes and fail early.
The mixture of quality, driver style and maintenance can make any car more or less likely to have problems. A good basic car treated poorly may last as long as a poor basic car treated well.
With the right care and driver styles, the majority of engines will last long enough to come under the normal eventual rebuild classic car scenario mentioned above. Unfortunately some - even with the greatest care and attention, driver styles and FSH maintenance - will still suffer prematurely.
This makes predictions and statistics impossible to quantify accurately since the random nature of the quality issues throws a spanner in any figures anyone comes up with - as it still means you may be lucky or unlucky with your car whatever the figures you believe in state and whatever you do with it and to it.
I think that what is more important than trying to predict when any particular engine will fail (which is impossible) is to recognise that it CAN happen and if it does there are different rebuild options some of which are better than others or more or less expensive than others and some of which offer better long term solutions and even improved performance – so as long as owners understand the situation they have plenty of options available if they ever need them – which is a whole lot better position to be in than if the only option is an engine to the same specification of the one that has failed and could do so again at a price that is probably the most expensive available.
Baz
bazhart said:
Baz as always a great reply :thumb: and as you say almost impossible to predict, so all we can do is do the due dilligence and borescope PPI etc at time of purchase , adopt the widely accepted risk minimisation maintenance and driving styles, save a pot knowing that currantly these cars are not depreciating like most others and the cost of a rebuild is about the same as you would lose in depreciation on most other marques over a three year period if your one of the unlucky ones , and having a nice pot at the end if your not one of the unlucky ones . Buy the car knowing these things drive it and enjoy it
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
The big question always asked is whats the risk of it being me in % terms and as you say almost impossible to predict, and as much as I am in the group that believes its around 5% , that doesnt really help if your one of the 5% .
All you can do is say in probability given the number of these cars produced v the number of instances of Borescore occuring , currantly there is a greater probability of it not happening to you but by no means can you assume it won't happen to you.
But then Life in general is about risk v % v probability and if we all worried about that we would all be pretty miserable, so all we can do is weigh up the risks, follow or at least be aware of health guidelines and enjoy life knowing more live to a ripe old age than don't :thumb:
ld: ld:
All you can do is say in probability given the number of these cars produced v the number of instances of Borescore occuring , currantly there is a greater probability of it not happening to you but by no means can you assume it won't happen to you.
But then Life in general is about risk v % v probability and if we all worried about that we would all be pretty miserable, so all we can do is weigh up the risks, follow or at least be aware of health guidelines and enjoy life knowing more live to a ripe old age than don't :thumb:
ld: ld:Whats funny is looking back at old Porsche mags... I was reading a copy from 2006 the other day, came across an article on 996 engine problems. It focused on the 3.4 as the the M96 had been redesigned and all known problems eradicated! :floor:
In another copy, an article on 964 engine issues which had depressed second hand prices. Sounds familiar...
Better to take a chance on a cheaper 997.1 and provision for a proper rebuild than pay megabucks more for a .2 and then need to spend ££££ on as yet unknown work in a few years time.
In another copy, an article on 964 engine issues which had depressed second hand prices. Sounds familiar...
Better to take a chance on a cheaper 997.1 and provision for a proper rebuild than pay megabucks more for a .2 and then need to spend ££££ on as yet unknown work in a few years time.
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