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996 3.4 DIY Clutch & Fly etc turns into mini restoration

wasz said:
Thanks Demort! I do need two cam locking tools then.

I notice in those instructions they do not remove the tensioner for bank 4-6 (under the a/c compressor?)

I also watched this (similar age engine) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmB53bALf8 and he does not remove this third tensioner either.

I take from that it it not necessary to remove this. But I can't understand why.....surely that tension would cause the ims to be pulled over to that side?

The two tensioners being removed both operate on chains at the end of the IMS where the bearing is fitted. The third one which isn't removed operates at the other end of the IMS so will not exert anything like the force at this end.
I have the workshop manuals for this engine, PM me if you are interested.

MC
 
To add to what MC said

The chain tensioner under the ac pump on bank 2 if left in situ will add comfort that no cam chain jump can happen on that bank. You cannot lock both banks simultaneously (well I never tried it anyway).

Sooo essentially you will lock the cams on bank 1 only when the crank is rotated so that the slots in those cams are in a vertical position. Watch out though because the cam end slots are offset and the proper tool is milled to fit only one way so the crank may need to be turned if the offset in the cams when vertical are 180deg out
 
MisterCorn said:
The two tensioners being removed both operate on chains at the end of the IMS where the bearing is fitted. The third one which isn't removed operates at the other end of the IMS so will not exert anything like the force at this end.
I have the workshop manuals for this engine, PM me if you are interested.

MC

Aha, this now makes sense. Thanks - I have the workshop manual for my car, I didn't find the IMS cover removal bit - I had just been looking at transmission removal etc. Will have a harder look....

Harv said:
Sooo essentially you will lock the cams on bank 1 only when the crank is rotated so that the slots in those cams are in a vertical position.

Penny has dropped.

I am setting the engine to TDC of Bank 1. I only need to make one tool to lock bank 1 - bank 2 will not move at all because the crank pulley is locked at that end, and the IMS support / bearing is not being loosened at that end. Locking bank 2 is pointless.

- is that correct?

Harv said:
Watch out though because the cam end slots are offset and the proper tool is milled to fit only one way so the crank may need to be turned if the offset in the cams when vertical are 180deg out

So when I pop the cam plug out of bank 1 (bottom left rear near waterpump) and look at the end of the camshaft, the slot should lookm like this and my tool fit this:

80-blob_d2ad5801d58983ad78adbb75cf0631c8e3ff9294.png


I do not need to pop the plug off bank 2 or lock it for the reasons above.

-----
Question (I know, I should just follow instructions and not ask...)... bank 2 is not at its TDC. There will be some force acting - will this not be trying to rotate the IMS, which has been de-tensioned relative to the locked crank? Could the IMS not rotate here and jump a tooth relative to the crank - or will it not do this given that chain is short?

z4z1xvW.jpg


-----

Thanks a lot everyone, this is absolutely amazing help, there is so much misinformation about this job on the internet and made harder by the M96 being installed in th more popular 986 the other way around.
 
From what I have read you are unlikely to have a problem with the chain jumping due to the very long wrap around of the chains on the sprockets on the early 5 chain engines. Much riskier on the later 3 chain ones where it is only over the exhaust camshafts for about 90 degrees.

MC
 
I think you have got it all now .

But Just to confirm ..

you cant lock both bank cams at the same time , if the tool doesnt fit then you rotate the engine as only one side can be locked at a time .. they are off set .

If you cannot fit the cam tool and the crank pin then the timing is out .. its unlikely but as its possible then ill just say at that point stop and ask for advise .

DO NOT rotate the engine backwards , so clock wise only , if you miss the crank pin or cam tool positions then rotate again .. this was in our instructions and i havent questioned it .. its just something we do .

Bank 2 (a/c compressor ) doesnt need to be locked or tensioner removed .. it cant jump as the IMS shaft cant move that far .. its about 2 feet long and is supported at the a/c end .. basically dont worry about it , bank 1 is locked at the cams so it is supported there .

You remove bank 1 tensioner AND the IMS chain tensioner so no tension at the gearbox end.

Carefully read the instructions i posted as they ARE the instructions that i would read if i was doing a job for the first time and they do say how to do the job :) .

If you are at all worryed about anything then pm me and ill give my number as its far easier on the phone sometimes .
 
Demort said:
If you are at all worryed about anything then pm me and ill give my number as its far easier on the phone sometimes .

Awesome thank you so much! I will PM you if I run into problems thanks a lot.

I just got 30 mins in the garage today after a hike while baby slept. I made my transmission adapter for my trolley jack. As you can see, theres not much to it. I got this jack when I had a 350z, those are really low and needed a low entry jack. I like this jack as its lightweight, and really stable with the wide wheels.

S5dHCWe.jpg


Under the rubber there is an allen bolt.

HZawh83.jpg


I used a 200x300mm piece of 4mm steel as my transmission adapter. Drilled a 24mm hole in the middle.

ftUjFeg.jpg


Bolted up to the jack. I will likely place bits of wood on top to match the profile of the gearbox.

On this jack the gearbox should be able to spin on top, and it should drop it low enough to drag out from under the car at the height I have it. A G50 weighs 10.5 stone dry, should be fine on this 4mm steel even if I don't jack the centre of gravity quite right - i bounced on it to be sure. I will use two roof rack straps to retain the gearbox.
 
infrasilver said:
When I made mine I bolted end plates (angle iron) to the sides so the timber I used to pack the gearbox profile didn't slip off and then using a couple of straps to hold it all together.

I should have done this, gearbox was sliding around a bit.

Got the gearbox off!

I picked a lovey day for it, the car was frozen:
yVlQEWb.jpg


Ah well.

olRz531.jpg

eqq8Pcx.jpg


Bolted a socket up on the lower right to rest the engine on the crossmember while I work on it.

FtTz36R.jpg


Keeping the bolts in order sop the correct ones go back in.

Special tools so far: 10mm XZN triple square bit

Difficult bits:

Gear cables looked like they had never been off and the lower was rusted solid to its mount. Half an hour of faffing got it off, clip destroyed but zip ties will hold it on now.

I worried about the top gearbox bolt, as i couldn't get a breaker or ratchet on it. I dropped the engine to the bottom of the mount thread, and the gearbox a bit luckily it came undone with a ratchet spanner I had - was not too tight.

CLUTCH SLAVE aaargh POS what a faff. 13mm bolts. I undid it when i drppped the box a bit. The lower bolt is a pain.

Sliding the box off itself was like wrestling a stuck pig.

Otherwise not too bad. 3 hours today broken by a long lunch. i've decided to do the brake pipe over the gearbox, it does not look great in places.
 
infrasilver said:
wasz said:
CLUTCH SLAVE aaargh POS what a faff. 13mm bolts. I undid it when i drppped the box a bit. The lower bolt is a pain.

You'll enjoy refitting it then, trying to compress the slave plunger while getting a bolt in. :frustrated:

Yep Infrasilver knows the score, fitting the slave cylinder is a barrel of laughs. For bleeding though; the single best tool I have ever bought is the Eezibleed brake kit. Highly recommended ;)
 
infrasilver said:
wasz said:
CLUTCH SLAVE aaargh POS what a faff. 13mm bolts. I undid it when i drppped the box a bit. The lower bolt is a pain.

You'll enjoy refitting it then, trying to compress the slave plunger while getting a bolt in. :frustrated:

Hell yeah lol ..

Compress the slave cyl rod by pushing it against the gearbox casing untill its fully home .. then clamp a brake pipe tool on the pipe to hold the pressure .. spray some lub on the rubber boot and youll fit it just fine .

Bolts and i use a short extension and go at it through the coiled pipe of the slave cyl .. so ratchet inside the loop basically .

So far .. well done young man :D
 
Demort said:
Check the clutch slave cyl pipe and union as they are often heavily corroded these days .

Jeez they know how to charge for that one. 99642337707 £122.

Crikey, check this out, treaded fitting for the above to the clutch line: 99923054110 £100 !!!!!!

Mine looks a little crusty at the crimps, but hey it works. I will be putting jubilee clips over the crimps to extend its life I think.

If it fails I would take it to a hydraulic hose place and see if they will renew the rubber and crimps.

Where to stop.....

EDIT: more info on these parts: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118813
 
Demort said:
Compress the slave cyl rod by pushing it against the gearbox casing untill its fully home .. then clamp a brake pipe tool on the pipe to hold the pressure .. spray some lub on the rubber boot and youll fit it just fine .

Bolts and i use a short extension and go at it through the coiled pipe of the slave cyl .. so ratchet inside the loop basically .

So far .. well done young man :D

Brill thanks for the tip! Why did I not use my short 1/4" extension duh.

One thing.... when I pulled the slave out, it left the metal tip of its rod and the rubber boot in the bell housing.....

Can I just push the rod back in and refit the boot before replacing the slave, or is it new slave time?
 
Wasz, just seen this thread as ive been out of the country for quite a while and not online.

I did this exact job last year.

I made a few tools which you are welcome to borrow if you can get down to essex?

I made a RMS tool which allows you to evenly load the seal as you put it and stops at exactly 13mm (the depth that was perfect for mine). I machined this out of solid steel bar therefore dimensions are very accurate and snug fitting.

My RMS was replaced by a well known "specialist" 2 weeks before i bought the car- it leaked. Upon inspection the seal was 0.75mm deeper on one side than the other which i blame for the leak (hence making my tool).

I also made a tool for inserting a new trans mount (its a bit agricultural but works). Let me know if you want to borrow them - although i do want them back and they are too heavy to post.
 
Gixxer996 said:
Wasz, just seen this thread as ive been out of the country for quite a while and not online.

I did this exact job last year.

I made a few tools which you are welcome to borrow if you can get down to essex?

I made a RMS tool which allows you to evenly load the seal as you put it and stops at exactly 13mm (the depth that was perfect for mine). I machined this out of solid steel bar therefore dimensions are very accurate and snug fitting.

My RMS was replaced by a well known "specialist" 2 weeks before i bought the car- it leaked. Upon inspection the seal was 0.75mm deeper on one side than the other which i blame for the leak (hence making my tool).

I also made a tool for inserting a new trans mount (its a bit agricultural but works). Let me know if you want to borrow them - although i do want them back and they are too heavy to post.

Wow thanks for the offer :D

However I'm up north, not likely to be near essex :( I can arrange a courier if thats OK for you (I understand if not).

My gearbox mount looks fine (no splits) but I'm aware its old. I have a powerflex insert sitting here - so I'm in two minds whether to get a new lemforder bushing (£16+vat) or just stick the powerflex insert in.

Also I rather suspect my oil is coming from the IMS seal. If theres no leak from the RMS, I dunno, maybe I should leave it alone? Again I'm in two minds about it. I have a new seal sitting here. Will see what it looks like.
 

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