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andylang
Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 273
Location: Southampton
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 Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:00 am Post subject: Bore Scoring - how much is "normal"?! Looking to r
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Hi all,
Im a former 996 owner (engine blew, cylinder liner cracked), and a year has passed now with every car ive had since has not stopped that need for another 911.
Reason I didnt get a 997.1 C2S last year was for obvious reasons. My 435i M Sport Plus has nothing on my old 911!!!!
Now though, hindsight and all, im looking at the 911 
Ive been sent some borescope pictures of a car, im a dab hand with cars and tinkering all the time on my track car. Ive never looked at bore score though. How much is normal operation - if any!
Ill try and figure out how to upload images if anyone here can assist please?
Many thanks in advance,
Andy
[/img]
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Blew up the 996 C2....... currently in an M3, I shall return to the Porsche family!!
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andylang
Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 273
Location: Southampton
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:03 am Post subject:
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Oh the pics work now!
To me it looks excessive
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Blew up the 996 C2....... currently in an M3, I shall return to the Porsche family!!
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saxon46
Silverstone
Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 117
Location: south wales boy bach
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:26 am Post subject:
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in a word no......sooner or later thats gonna need the engine doing
have a word with hartech maybe mail em the piccies,they are deffo the boys to talk to
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MARK-english lad in wales....where men are men and sheep are scared
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wasz
Indianapolis
Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2497
1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:28 am Post subject:
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normal for a 997.1 .... but do you want to be the owner that drops £££ on a rebuild sooner or later?
I would get one without any score evidence or let someone else take the rebuild hit.
Unless its cheap enough to take the risk.
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ragpicker
Estoril
Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3515
Location: North East England
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:25 am Post subject:
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You can get some minor grazing on the liners but those are definitely scored. It'd be worth buying if you could get it £10k less than the price of a similar car, otherwise walk.
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996 turbo - slightly modified....
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
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andylang
Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 273
Location: Southampton
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:33 am Post subject:
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Hi all,
Thanks for your feedback, I’ll walk from this one  gutting as it’s the exact spec. It’s on the money so I may see if they will factor in new linings at hartec to the price 
Hunt probably continues
Thanks
Andy
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Blew up the 996 C2....... currently in an M3, I shall return to the Porsche family!!
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cheshire911
Estoril
Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3713
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:34 am Post subject:
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Look for another car. Plenty of choice available.
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996 2002 X50 Turbo Manual
"Once bitten; forever smitten"
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resigner
Suzuka
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1107
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject:
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Ask Baz at Hartech, though doesn't look good.
Is it a seller on here or a dealer or something else? Would be nice if you shared where the car is so someone else doesn't get taken in........
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FZP
Watkins Glen
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2177
Location: Cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject:
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Your question to me sounds like......"my potential girlfriend has the clap, how much is normal?"
Run man......Run!
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997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
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silvermilnec
Barcelona
Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 1388
Location: Leeds West Yorkshire
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:09 pm Post subject:
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| resigner wrote: | Ask Baz at Hartech, though doesn't look good.
Is it a seller on here or a dealer or something else? Would be nice if you shared where the car is so someone else doesn't get taken in........ |
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1996 944
1998 968
2000 996 C2
2006 997 4S
2009 997 1.5 Turbo basalt black on black
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rabbitstew
Montreal
Joined: 21 Aug 2015
Posts: 596
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:33 pm Post subject:
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| FZP wrote: | Your question to me sounds like......"my potential girlfriend has the clap, how much is normal?"
Run man......Run! |
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2008 997.1 Turbo Manual
2000 Ducati 996
1999 Yamaha R1
1994 Kawasaki ZXR750L2
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-- 997 --
Suzuka
Joined: 11 Jun 2015
Posts: 1006
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:00 pm Post subject:
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Oooh that looks nasticus problemicus. Made up Latin for nasty problem. 
I'd keep away..
J
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 13444
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S
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| Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:00 pm Post subject:
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Andy mate , good to hear your back and looking mate but that ones a NO thats not normal wear thats quite bad scoring, normal wear would be more even and mild more like scratch marks not actual groves .
As you know most must haves can be retrofitted so buy on condition and that alone .
Don't forget the 3.6 manual 977.1 has a stronger engine so don't discount it they are great cars. and a few grand on mods and its faster than a stock 3.8 
if you could get the car in the score pics for £14k and Hartech rebuild 10k you would have a bullet proof car for mid 20k also call Baz at Hartech and see if they have any rebuilt cars for sale now or soon.
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911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
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andylang
Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 273
Location: Southampton
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject:
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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help and advice! the company with this C2S sport chrono have a sister company (perfect touch?!?) who can apparently fit Hartech liners and do the rebuild..... I’m very dubious and would rather buy a better car from a more reputable dealer. I’ve found a few from specialists but they are non sport Chrono. However have the other options I want and low miles for the money.
I will go look at some when I’m back in the uk and see what’s what.
Haha thanks Phil, starting with Throttle bodies eh 😉
With mild scratches, is it a case of it will need a rebuild in the future. Or with regular love and lots of oil changes it can be maintained and not made much worse.
Many thanks and look forward to returning to the family 😀
_________________
Blew up the 996 C2....... currently in an M3, I shall return to the Porsche family!!
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resigner
Suzuka
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1107
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject:
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Not sure I would rate those as minor scratches!!!
Definately ask Baz to look at them. I don't think I would go to anyone else for advice about bore scoring.........
Would the dealer pay for a rebuild depending on Baz's advice? Would be a great car if it's rebuilt and sorted out now....
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deMort
Shanghai
Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 4758
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:18 pm Post subject:
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Not sure if thats one cyl or different ones but its a bit more scoreing than i would be comfortable with .
Nothing deep but plenty of pick up there .
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7pm - 9pm
At an Indy these days !
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 13444
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:24 pm Post subject:
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| andylang wrote: | Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help and advice! the company with this C2S sport chrono have a sister company (perfect touch?!?) who can apparently fit Hartech liners and do the rebuild..... I’m very dubious and would rather buy a better car from a more reputable dealer. I’ve found a few from specialists but they are non sport Chrono. However have the other options I want and low miles for the money.
I will go look at some when I’m back in the uk and see what’s what.
Haha thanks Phil, starting with Throttle bodies eh 😉
With mild scratches, is it a case of it will need a rebuild in the future. Or with regular love and lots of oil changes it can be maintained and not made much worse.
Many thanks and look forward to returning to the family 😀 |
Hi Andy, yep Throttle body plenum 200 cell cats and a remap your sorted lol.
It really takes a specialist to identify whats borescope and whats regular bore scuff that you would find on any car, the later is quite normal and not just Porsches get it. yes 10k oil changes use millers 10W50, warm the engine before going over 3k revs , LTT etc etc those are the normal things .
do have a word with Harlech and see if they have any rebuilt cars coming up for sale, and give some thought to the 3.6 cars generally a bit cheaper , probably been driven steadily , and you would get a newer one with the newer IMS for your budget. keep us posted on progress mate.
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911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
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bazhart
Approved Trader
Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 872
Location: Bolton Lancashire
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:48 am Post subject:
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Just to confirm the only people who fit our liners are us. We have invested in hugely expensive modern machinery to do it and have highly trained staff that enable the quality to make it all work so successfully.
We are happy to fit our liners to owners or other specialists crankcases, or engines, or of course - cars but we do not sell our liners.
This is entirely because the process of making the liners is not as difficult as machining the crankcases to fit them correctly and most engine re-manufacturers do not have equipment that is capable of creating the right tolerances (especially on depth shoulders) nor can circular interpolate steps (which is essential) and only an accurate CNC machine can re-create viably.
We do have a business in Canada that we are working with who have machine shop capability and we are developing their ability to recreate our work here - over there - but it is highly specialised and takes a lot of time, effort, special jigs and tools.
As far as I am aware we are also the only supplier that truly converts the cylinder to a true closed deck construction (many others claim to but do not actually fit the top of the liner to a precision machined recess in the block).
Although most customers now have all 6 cylinders replaced we still are prepared to replace only damaged cylinders and can fit support rings to the others to prevent them cracking one day.
Baz
_________________
Click here for the Hartech
You can trust us to "CARE FOR YOUR PORSCHE"
www.hartech.org
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resigner
Suzuka
Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1107
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:11 am Post subject:
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Any views on the pictures Baz?
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bazhart
Approved Trader
Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 872
Location: Bolton Lancashire
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:38 pm Post subject:
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Classic bore scoring but not as deep as it will probably become later.
Baz
_________________
Click here for the Hartech
You can trust us to "CARE FOR YOUR PORSCHE"
www.hartech.org
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![Porsche 911 [991]](./images/models/998.png)
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