Porsche 911UK Forum

Welcome to the @Porsche911UK website. Register a free account today to become a member! Sign up is quick and easy, then you can view, participate in topics and posts across the site that covers all things Porsche.

Already registered and looking to recovery your account, select 'login in' and then the 'forget your password' option.

Debris in oil - can you identify?

Okay managed to get the sump off and photos are as below.

It was pretty much clean with no major bits found other than about 6 small brown ceramic style bits and another 3 similar metal flakes on the oil pick up. I'm assuming this is timing tensioner items?

Bit of a dilemma now, does it warrant getting the tensioners looked at? Clutch needs done so I was going to get the IMS outer seal removed so I presume it wouldn't be to much to take a look at the tensioners although the manifolds so have to come off.

Any thoughts?
 

Attachments

  • img_20171127_210629_817.jpg
    img_20171127_210629_817.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 6,186
  • img_20171127_210953_718.jpg
    img_20171127_210953_718.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 6,186
  • img_20171127_212436_117.jpg
    img_20171127_212436_117.jpg
    905 KB · Views: 6,186
The brown pieces do look like chain guide material, I have replaced my guides in the past, once as one had pitted on the surface quite a lot and another I changed at a later date had cracked in several places, this cracked one was the one I replaced previously and was fairly new still. Unfortunately if these fail you will lose tension in your chain and possibly lunch the engine. You would need to remove the cams to inspect these.

On the 3.4 you also have a cam chain and there are a brown pair of guides on them too, you could check these by removing the cam covers to see if there are any bits missing from the guides.

Again those metal deposits are a mystery but as you have found more it suggests something is not happy in there.
 
Like the Clint Eastwood saying....

If it was me I would want to know what's going on with the tensioner pads and chain guide plastics, so at least cam covers off and eyeball those in the heads, you won't be able to look at the chain guides though unless the cams are removed and you will not know what the ims chain tensionser is like (but that one is black and not white which stains to brown so I think you can rule that one out from looking at your pics).

Poppopbangbang who posts here sometimes had a pulley end main crank bearing fail due to a tensioner blade breaking up and the debris going past the oil pump pickup. He had been monitoring metal content in the oil and this showed up something was a miss though the car ran on for maybe 500 miles. You know that you are ok thus far but 'if' it does start making metal then it will be into bottom end work, knowing too much almost and ignorance is bliss etc.

The tensioners on the 3.4 remind me a lot of the one which sits between the cams on the 944s/s2 16v engines. They had no life/mileage or check written into Porsche service schedule, over time the tensioners pad would be worn away until a critical point where the chain would suddenly be able to eat into and pickup on the the metal underneath with catastrophic results.

Hope this helps :eek:
 
I found this photo below of the cam plugs and it does look familiar. I've got a noisy tappet and there is some chain noise on start up so it's all adding up..... :evil:

Bit annoyed a 30k engine is doing this, the reason I bought it was so I didn't have to worry about things failing from wear and tear for a good while.
If I'm honest ive pretty much lost interest now, only had it couple of months and it needs a clutch and flywheel soon as well. Don't have the time or spare cash to be getting this fixed :nooo:. I've bought a pup it seems. :sad:
 

Attachments

  • 37327465922_f3ec242394_h_175.jpg
    37327465922_f3ec242394_h_175.jpg
    620 KB · Views: 6,139
Yes the inside of those cam plugs is what I thought your metal debris looked like.

Are you doing the remedial work yourself?

Lots of cars make noise on startup until pressure comes into the chain tensioners and that's just how they are.

Parts discussed shouldn't cost you too much and there's some good deals on clutches about. With only 30k if your flywheel was new when the replacement engine went in then it should be fine to use again subject to the necessary checks.

Good luck
 
I don't have the time or facilities to take this on to be honest. I can also see it getting to a point where it might warrant more work that I couldn't handle and I'd be stuck.

I'm kind of stuck though, it needs to be done to be driven. Contemplating just taking a hit and seeing if anyone fancies a cheap project. So pissed off with this now especially as it's so soon after buying.

What are we talking roughly in parts costs as I'd need someone to do the work? I've priced up clutch and flywheel already so know the hit on that. Flywheel is 90k on it as they swapped them over when changing the engine.
 
Infrasilver will be able to give you an idea of costs. It would make for a good project for somebody, the sort of thing that I'm daft enough to consider.

I would see if a reliable Indy can give you an idea on possible prices. If anybody takes it on themselves they will want a hefty discount for the unknown issues, you would quote possibly be better off financially by keeping it and getting it fixed.

Such a shame when you have had the car for such a short time, I can imagine how you feel. Sell now and it would always be a failure. Take the hit to get it fixed and you can hopefully enjoy the car for a long time.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

MC
 
Totally, if it had happened after a year or so then wouldn't be so bad.

Maybe a knee jerk reaction on selling but right now if I got a sensible offer Id wave goodbye.

I'll speak to the Indy that was going to do the clutch to see what they say, I can just go dump it with them and let them take there time over winter. That's the other annoying thing is that the closets good Indy is a good 2hrs from me.
 
Your main costs in parts will be the clutch & FW

The 3.4 vario chain pads are £18 a side which includes a top and bottom and a seal, the main chain guides are £25 x4 and the cam end plugs £3.50 x4

The issue is finding someone to do the work at a decent rate. I've considered giving up my shitty day job and offering services for about £50 per hour which is significantly cheaper than the local Indy's to me (near Gatwick) but way too far away from you and I'm not convinced I could bring in enough work to pay the bills with the odd job here and there.

Shame really as I have all the timing tools and those I didn't have (ims removal) I made

:thumb:
 
That acceptable costs to me. Just trying to organize with the garage when they can take a look, said they would have a check before starting any work to see if the can ascertain if its anything more then take it from there.

Luckily I have a T5 with towbar and local trailer hire so I can take it and leave it using that.

Whats a rolling chassis worth these days ?
:lol:
 
MisterCorn said:
Infrasilver will be able to give you an idea of costs. It would make for a good project for somebody, the sort of thing that I'm daft enough to consider.

I would see if a reliable Indy can give you an idea on possible prices. If anybody takes it on themselves they will want a hefty discount for the unknown issues, you would quote possibly be better off financially by keeping it and getting it fixed.

Such a shame when you have had the car for such a short time, I can imagine how you feel. Sell now and it would always be a failure. Take the hit to get it fixed and you can hopefully enjoy the car for a long time.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

MC

Especially as some cars seem to have continuous problems. It's already had a replacement engine in 2010, and a different gearbox. My 996 hasnt missed a beat in 8 years, despite being well used over thousands of miles around the Alps and plenty of trackdays.

If its cheap enough I'm a sucker.
 
Not much point in just doing all the guides if you have metal floating around in there, you may spend the money replacing all those only to find something major is failing. As Hartech don't recognise these particles and two engine builders on here also don't, it seems a mystery that would worry me more than the guides at the moment.
The cam chain pads are quite thick and would take an awful lot of miles to wear through, but I'm sure this is where your plastic particles are from, they are the correct colour and appear to be breaking down. If the pads are wearing this can be measured with Durametric to see what cam deviations you have, this will give you a clue on pad wear.

I don't think the green end plugs you suggest will be your particles, in reality how would these break down and be inside your engine, the lines on the debris do look the same as the rubber sides but the metal behind the rubber won't have the same lines in them I'm sure and they won't flake or corrode with engine oil permanently splashed over them. It's coming from somewhere though, just need to narrow it down and have someone else who knows these engines physically have a look at your metal particles.
 
If you decide to sell as a project let me know what your thinking, I've no intertrest in the engine so rolling car would be perfect.
 
I just got a clutch and flywheel for under £450 from cp4l

Its the labour that will add up. Shame lots of very good mechanics are scared off Porsche engines are they likely haven't seen one before and are worried about perceived liability. They are just engines....
 

New Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
124,350
Messages
1,439,414
Members
48,705
Latest member
Scratch
Back
Top