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Templar861
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Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 10



PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Range data.....1-6 Reply with quote

Morning guys....first post on here....I have been hunting round for a 997 for the last few months and had 3 inspcted.
I have recently had one inspected down in Sevenoaks and a few issues were raised....one of which was bore scoring on 4,5 and 6. (This is being looked at and 6 cylinders will be renewed) The other issue was over Rev data on it. It’s a 54 3.6 Tiptronic....the car has done 70,000...should I be worried further about the following? I got the full breakdown and then applied the calculation to get the actual amount of time.
1 26.3 seconds
2 2.58 seconds
3 0.78 seconds
4 0.3 seconds
5 0.02 seconds
6 0
This is from 2466 hours the last spike was at 2432.

Can anyone also give me a realistic quote for a new vacuum pump supplied and fitted?
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be more worried about the off the cuff remark - 'all 6 will be renewed'. That's IRO £10k to do that.
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FZP
Estoril


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3901
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it be looking at another car and leaving this one be. It's a no from me for both the bore score and the rev range
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Templar861
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Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 10



PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The scoring is light and as I said the cylinders are going to be done by one of 3 respected companies who have quoted me already. If I choose to go ahead!
The colour and spec of the car is good and like most if not all it’s got bore scoring so it’s about getting the car into a condition that will keep it going for many years to come.
The problem I have found is that all the cars I’ve looked at all have scoring....so I’m at a point where getting all cylinders done is necessary as I’m not prepared to buy over priced versions from independent places or individuals. Porsche prices are all over the place.

So the Rev Range data would still be an issue to you both if there was no bore scoring? I personally don’t understand why it’s so much of an issue particularly on 1-2 Range considering the age and number of hours....but you two know more than me. Thanks for your input Thumb
 
  
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 16132
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing that the over revs in R3, R4 and R5 all happened at the same time during one careless shift and if the car is running fine now it wouldn't be a great concern to me.

As it's a Tip' again at a guess it was a spike caused by hard acceleration over a bumpy road whilst the car was in manual mode.
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Templar861
Newbie


Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 10



PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes data shows the last spike which was in those ranges was at 2432 out of 2466.
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15570
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming your talking non turbo car, This is the best place to get a tandem pump, this is the right one for the 997.1 despite it not stating that in the ad.
and its half the price of the opc . Pierberg make the pumps for Porsche

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/pierburg/7890260?search=PIERBURG%20Vacuum%20Pump,%20brake%20system%20%20
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just make sure you do your homework on which engine builder you use, especially if it's a keeper.

Personally, sounds to me like the cars been ragged about. I wouldn't chance the headache of what condition the engine's in when they open it up.
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Templar861
Newbie


Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 10



PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough. I thank you for your comments. The thing is the car is being offered to me cheaply because the PPI report has been given to me and the owner knows full well the asking price can’t be achieved.
I hear what you are saying about walking away but I could find a near perfect example with no issues at all at £22-25k and have it scoped and find it’s scored....
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 16132
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Templar861 wrote:


The thing is the car is being offered to me cheaply because the PPI report has been given to me and the owner knows full well the asking price can’t be achieved.



If you like everything else about the car and plan to keep it a while I suppose it depends on how just 'cheaply' you can get it.

Good Luck Thumb
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'd have to be £10k cheaper to be worth while. There's a few around with full Hartech rebuilds where all 6 pistons and liners have been replaced to Hartech's standard and other future proofing work done by them. Some still have a guarantee on the work done. Would make far more sense to me to buy one of those.
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Templar861
Newbie


Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 10



PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

£13000....the guy needs it gone. Original had it up for £20k. When informed of issues he called me immediately.
Awaiting quotes.....Hartech is one...RPM Technik and an independent ex Porsche race mechanic in Hoddesdon, Hertfordshire because he is near to me.
Anyway...I asked for thoughts and you’ve given them so I’m grateful. I will await my quotes....
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 17144
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah - I can see your logic now you've quoted numbers. Thumb

IMHO (again Grin ) - Hartech - no substitute!

To quote from the owner:

bazhart wrote:
OK - Good point - you think we are all the same - so please you tell us which other engine rebuilder can match the following and are therefore the same.

Has a resident technical guy that has designed and made engines that have won at GP level, TT races, British Championships and Porsche Club classes?

Which other engine builders have their own precision machine shop with CNC machinery and carry out all their work in house?

Who first created a true closed deck modification and analysed and tested coolant flow to establish the need to alter the flow characteristics?.

Who pointed out that a third radiator actually increases the chances of bore scoring?

Which other engine rebuilders have a maintenance plan that results in free labour for engine rebuilds in the event of failure?

Who else has rebuilt hundreds of engines with true closed deck Nikasil alloy cylinders for more than 10 years and for many other Porsche specialists.

My point is that the comment that we are the same is not true. Of course there are other talented people out there that can rebuild engines and there are alternative solutions and technical specifications - some offer more than others and their reputation has grown and been recognised as a result of their success.

We can handle one rebuild/working day and yet are presently booked up into January 2018 and have a lot of new developments (like oversized engines) adding to our portfolio - we have no intention of moving to bigger premises or expanding - so we do not need to generate business and when we offer advice it is to help owners avoid damage (like our advice about warming up, which oils to use and providing LTT's etc). None of this brings in more engine rebuilds but helps owners delay or avoid them.

You are right that there are other good alternatives but there are also a lot of very inferior ones and for absolutely sure we are not all the same. If anyone thinks we are please provide a check list to show how and why to back up your claims.

Daz - I know of no differences that would make a later Gen 1 Cayman S, 3.4 996, 3.6 or 3.8 less likely to bore score than an earlier one except the obvious average lower mileage they will have covered and the greater numbers that by now will have been fitted with a LTT, more suitable oil, warmed up properly before driving hard and generally had better care now that the problems are general knowledge.

Gen 2 engines will be unlikely to bore score all together but may - after many years - seize a piston due to bore shrinkage in the thrust direction - which will still be very rare and can be minimised again by proper warming up especially in cold ambient conditions.


Baz

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Templar861
Newbie


Joined: 08 Oct 2017
Posts: 10



PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If my original post comes up about the response it’s bevause I thought that the quote was directly aimed at me....I was reading it on my phone....so didn’t see it was a quote from another post.
Please accept my apologies...
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15570
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats the sort of money to be getting it rebuilt and ending up with a keeper worth the 13k and the rebuild cost. so based on that worth a punt but as others have said the resale value is having the hartech name on the invoice having said that pretty sure from what I have heard they are quoting, Late Jan early Feb18 as the next slots for rebuild. Thumb
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3852



PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just walk away. Scored bores, rebuild, why when there are plenty of cars out there? The car has been off-loaded by the previous owner cos he knows bank 2 is shot and doesn't want to shell out £10k for a rebuild that'll not add a penny to the cars value.
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