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C4S Sourcing probs!

Yeah, it can take time. Took me about eight months to find the exact car I wanted. And that was with daily browsing of every site imaginable. I wanted a 996. But it had to be narrow body, rwd, had to be silver, with black interior. Had to be manual. And under 50K miles at the time which was about 8 or 9 years ago. My budget at the time was about 24K. Who knows, it might get back there one day(!) but that aside, there were more 993's of all colours and variants around at the time than the 996 that I was specifically looking for. You imagine there are loads of them out there until you go looking for one. Just goes to show. But when you find the one for you, it's worth it. Keep looking. I'm sure you'll find a very nice well loved example and if they are appreciating, it's not that fast. And there were quite a few C4S's sold so they are out there.

By the way, I also had to have a full service history but then shortly after I bought mine I dicovered a really fantastic Indy who just took such great care of the car that I simply preferred to give him the business rather than the Porsche Centre. If I was back buying now I wouldn't necessarioy be fixated by a FPSH. Once it's been looked after by good peole.
 
It might be frustrating on the one hand, but the search is one of the best bits of finding the car you like.. Or it is for me at least.

I quite like being in the zone, knowing each car thats on the market and knowing straight away if a new one pops up. Plus getting about and seeing them in the metal is often an eye opener.

Just stick to your principles and one will turn up. The 996 4S really is a peach :thumb:
 
ragpicker said:
It might be frustrating on the one hand, but the search is one of the best bits of finding the car you like.. Or it is for me at least.

I quite like being in the zone, knowing each car thats on the market and knowing straight away if a new one pops up. Plus getting about and seeing them in the metal is often an eye opener.

Just stick to your principles and one will turn up. The 996 4S really is a peach :thumb:

I'm with you. 1/3 of the fun is the hunt, 1/3 the car, 1/3 the people you meet and the forum.

I would be looking for a private sale or a non-specialist dealer if you want to beat the market.

MC
 
Porsche News said:
this one looks pretty good and from a highly respected specialist

http://911uk.com/ads_item.php?id=7829

Must be manual....Tiptronic is one thing i wont compromise on however long it takes.
The Biggest struggle like i've already mentioned is lack of correct maintenance....some are advertised as FULL service history, and when you call to enquire you are later told it only has 4 stamps in the book....4 services on a 13-14 year old car is not full service history. I would class that more along the lines of insufficient servicing myself.
 
I've quietly been on the hunt too and just pulled the trigger on one last week.

When you find one you'll be glad you did. A decent 996 C4s is a bit more special than a 997.1 from the cars I've seen and driven. There's a real sense of occasion and something very modern classic about them. Wide-body with that rear end!

I too saw some rather sketchy disappointing cars from specialist dealers.. One near Biggin Hill even had a slug crawling in its engine bay with horrible paintwork. Knackered interiors or main items (ims, rms etc) not done and asking price near £30k.. No thanks!

Found a car privately from a real gentleman who bought the car from Parr last year and then had a change in circumstances. Manual, sound history and only a couple of owners. They do exist! Persist and find your car.

Good luck :thumbs:
 
BK911 said:
I've quietly been on the hunt too and just pulled the trigger on one last week.

When you find one you'll be glad you did. A decent 996 C4s is a bit more special than a 997.1 from the cars I've seen and driven. There's a real sense of occasion and something very modern classic about them. Wide-body with that rear end!

I too saw some rather sketchy disappointing cars from specialist dealers.. One near Biggin Hill even had a slug crawling in its engine bay with horrible paintwork. Knackered interiors or main items (ims, rms etc) not done and asking price near £30k.. No thanks!

Found a car privately from a real gentleman who bought the car from Parr last year and then had a change in circumstances. Manual, sound history and only a couple of owners. They do exist! Persist and find your car.

Good advice I think....To be honest I am in no real rush. I have the cash burning a hole in my pocket, but I am not the sort to make impulse decisions and let myself get lured in by the excitement.

Your car sounds nice....Any pics?

Good luck :thumbs:
 
It was the same on my hunt for a 100k+ C2 (yes my budget only stretched that far).

Average money cars, on the phone "great car you will love it". When you turn up the window, sunroof and air con doesn't work, idling high, interior filthy and bonnet release cable dangling out. I was shown the door when bidding a fair price.

I went all over the country, eventually settled on one that was on the money but needed work. I bid them fair price to account for the work and they went for it.

That meant the car was cheap, but I put new suspension on it and all rubber mountings and ball joints, so for less ££ than an average car I got one that drives like new.

Worth thinking about - private buyers will have been bid int he balls at trade in but still advertise their cars on the money. They are much more likely to come down to anything above the trade in price than dealer.

Even more so if they have been quoted by the OPC or a specialist for simple jobs like suspension and air con.
 
I've had similar experiences in my search.

Started with a budget of 15k for a targa and soon found that no matter which way I sliced it, the cars I was looking at would end up costing me near 20.

So I've had to up the budget to that figure and still I'm finding cars with tappety engines and soot on the left tailpipe (a C4S that sold after a day nevertheless and then went to auction) for example. Or other cars that will need suspension refreshes plus new pads/discs/tyres. It all adds up.

From what I've found, people can seem blinded by the 'C4S' moniker and expect the prices to hold firm or increase no matter what. I'd be doubtful about that being the case with the ones I've seen and the condition they've been in.

That said, I've really taken to the way a C4S looks as well and have also been guilty of overdoing my man maths and trying hard to ignore potential foibles.

It's the siren of the 996 world :frustrated:
 
BChivs said:
BK911 said:
I've quietly been on the hunt too and just pulled the trigger on one last week.

When you find one you'll be glad you did. A decent 996 C4s is a bit more special than a 997.1 from the cars I've seen and driven. There's a real sense of occasion and something very modern classic about them. Wide-body with that rear end!

I too saw some rather sketchy disappointing cars from specialist dealers.. One near Biggin Hill even had a slug crawling in its engine bay with horrible paintwork. Knackered interiors or main items (ims, rms etc) not done and asking price near £30k.. No thanks!

Found a car privately from a real gentleman who bought the car from Parr last year and then had a change in circumstances. Manual, sound history and only a couple of owners. They do exist! Persist and find your car.

Good advice I think....To be honest I am in no real rush. I have the cash burning a hole in my pocket, but I am not the sort to make impulse decisions and let myself get lured in by the excitement.

Your car sounds nice....Any pics?

Good luck :thumbs:

Thanks BChivs.

I've driven it everyday for a week before I sell my old car just to be sure its as robust as I need it to be... can't describe how happy I am. Solid, fun and rewarding. C4s is a real gem, in fact it's the car I've always wanted. Soon the market will wake up to it, don't rush but don't procrastinate for too long either.
I'd stick with the 996 C4s in manual format, it really is the one to have.

Here's the link to some photos:-
http://www.parr-uk.co.uk/sales/porsche-911-996-carrera-4-s-2002-52.html

It's booked in for the interior to be refurbished and I'm in discussion with Parr for a new exhaust and suspension



:thumb: :thumb:
 
I am quite surprised by all the sub standard cars you say you have seen, when i was looking (2011-2012) they were all in great condition to be fair, but that was before they bottomed out, which as mentioned before put them into the hands of people that may not have been able to afford the running costs.
When i started my search i specifically wanted manual, PCM2, PSE and just 'as nature intended' standard in every other way....
June 2012 i travelled down to Finlay Gorham, they had 2 for sale, a standard 2003 and then the second one.... It had the factory widebody aerokit and X73 suspension, i didnt want a harder ride than standard, that was until i test drove it and it blew my mind compared to the M3 i had! The X73 wasnt a gimmick, the handling is just unreal, and boy does it turn heads!

These cars are getting old now, mine is no garage queen, but its not meant to be, it was my only car for 2 years before i realised racking up almost 10k a year was a bit much, and so bought a second car for the commute.

Make sure you buy one that has good pads and discs, good tyres and have all of the brake pipes checked - i have had to replace almost all of mine in the last 5 years.

I keep thinking about selling her (the car not the missus!) but i have become so attached over the last 5 years that i keep thinking it will be my biggest regret. (like i wish i still had my Lancia delta integrale 16v!)
But you only live once, this year or early next year i will regretfully put it up for sale, its time for a GT car for me, specifically a granturismo - i am in love with the looks!

Keep up the search, there are lots to choose from and it may seem disheartening now, but when you finally have one it will be smiles all day long! It is the longest i have ever owned a car, and for good reason...you simply cannot buy a better car for the money!
 
mr gill said:
I am quite surprised by all the sub standard cars you say you have seen, when i was looking (2011-2012) they were all in great condition to be fair, but that was before they bottomed out, which as mentioned before put them into the hands of people that may not have been able to afford the running costs.
When i started my search i specifically wanted manual, PCM2, PSE and just 'as nature intended' standard in every other way....
June 2012 i travelled down to Finlay Gorham, they had 2 for sale, a standard 2003 and then the second one.... It had the factory widebody aerokit and X73 suspension, i didnt want a harder ride than standard, that was until i test drove it and it blew my mind compared to the M3 i had! The X73 wasnt a gimmick, the handling is just unreal, and boy does it turn heads!

These cars are getting old now, mine is no garage queen, but its not meant to be, it was my only car for 2 years before i realised racking up almost 10k a year was a bit much, and so bought a second car for the commute.

Make sure you buy one that has good pads and discs, good tyres and have all of the brake pipes checked - i have had to replace almost all of mine in the last 5 years.

I keep thinking about selling her (the car not the missus!) but i have become so attached over the last 5 years that i keep thinking it will be my biggest regret. (like i wish i still had my Lancia delta integrale 16v!)
But you only live once, this year or early next year i will regretfully put it up for sale, its time for a GT car for me, specifically a granturismo - i am in love with the looks!

Keep up the search, there are lots to choose from and it may seem disheartening now, but when you finally have one it will be smiles all day long! It is the longest i have ever owned a car, and for good reason...you simply cannot buy a better car for the money!


I think you've answered your own question there. These cars are now 50% older than when you were looking.

To me the OP has two choices: hang on in there for that pampered example that someone's letting go due to a change in circumstances or needing to scratch another itch, or pick up a more readily available (and I'd wager considerably cheaper) "used" car, without anything obviously dodgy about it and a solid history and spend some money bringing it up to the standard he'd like. The former will come along eventually, the latter's more readily available now, but then requires some effort once bought. Depends on your preference.
 
I was looking at a manual C4S cabriolet as my first 911 at the tail end of last year. I love the looks (still do!) but the prices were starting to really ramp up. I saw a well spec'd minter with 16,000 miles on it for £33k last October which seemed like crazy money then, but not so much now. I then saw one with about 50,000 miles on which looked decent, but I found mismatched tyres on the rear axle (the dealer didn't seem to think this was concerning at all) a lack of options for about £25k, decent service history though.

I then came to the conclusion that despite the C4S being really distinctive and a true bargain a couple of years ago it would be madness to buy one when a really good 997.1 is the same price or even less than a really good C4S right now. The 997 S is faster, arguably handles better and has a more modern interior. There are also more around to choose from so you can be more fussy finding the right car. Whilst some might say that the 996 will continue to appreciate and the 997 will continue to fall over the next few years, there is no evidence of good 997's dropping in value. Once the bottom end of the market rots away as per the 996, we'll be left with good examples and values will hold steady.

Personal choice and all that, just thought I'd share my thought process when faced with this at the end of last year.
 
Depending on the price of the car i don't think the lack of service stamps would put me off buying.
Some home serviced car that are owned by enthusiasts and now there way around a tool box can be just as good if not better.
My car has a full history and it pains me that im going to have to pay around £200 for a oil change just so i can have the book stamped.
Especially as i know im more than capable of doing it myself for a fraction of the cost.
 
captain caveman said:
Depending on the price of the car i don't think the lack of service stamps would put me off buying.
Some home serviced car that are owned by enthusiasts and now there way around a tool box can be just as good if not better.
My car has a full history and it pains me that im going to have to pay around £200 for a oil change just so i can have the book stamped.
Especially as i know im more than capable of doing it myself for a fraction of the cost.

Trouble is there is no way of knowing if it has been maintained at all!....When there is a 6 year gap in the service book and no further paperwork to assume otherwise it is too much risk....These are great cars if properly maintained, but buy wrong and it could be a very costly decision which would inherently leave a very bad taste. Not only this, but a car with a service history maintained at reputable dealerships will always demand more money and be more desirable. It might be a teeth dryer sometimes paying dealer prices for servicing but in my eyes money well spent to protect your investment.
 

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