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100K miles. Is yours above or below?

coullstar said:
On this subject who out there has the sports pack fitted so M030, diff etc and how have they lasted?

The suspension, arbs and diff really seem to be appeal but in reality will they not be past their best by these sort of mileages so shouldn't really command a premium as they will have to be replaced relatively soon.

You can then upgrade at this point so a base spec is maybe not really any less off?


Hi C,
Pretty much bang on.
I'd say by 80k shocks are knackered (some people say renew if older than 60k) and diff probably won't be doing much.
Anti roll bars generally last. Powder coat and fit new bushes and they should be fine.

I guess it's just nice to find a car with the rarer factory options even if they need swapping like on any other non rare option car.

911s are quite tough on shocks, especially the rears with the weight of the engine and the heat off the engine.

So yeah the age they're at now I doubt I'd wait around for M030 or 220 LSD.
A bonus if a car has them though.
I suppose you can always rebuild a worn LSD but if you don't have one to begin with, you have to buy one.

PS I still have those coilpacks I bought from you. Finally getting fitted next month with a boat load of other bits. :thumb:
 
I certainly wouldn't get hung up on mileage if I intended using the car, if it were to be locked away in the hope values increase I'd look for lower mileage.

Knowing what I know now I wouldn't touch a car (approaching 90/100k) without an engine rebuild from a proper specialist, personally I'd rather have an Autofarm or Hartech rebuild as a Porsche replacement engine.

As stated above, come 80k plus mileage other components will be tiring so something with high mileage but looked after IE replacement of suspension parts etc etc could be a good buy if condition is good.
 
I've got a bit of a dilemma as one of the cars I'm looking at had a replacement engine from Porsche (3.4 with single row IMS) due to bore scoring. It's now done 30k on new engine but car is on 90k.
Gearbox rebuild as well and all the M030 kit so it seems good car. Surely lightening can't strike twice....... :?:
 
Marky911 said:
BK911 said:
@harv
@marky911

I see your points about aircooled nostalgia and they also needed rebuilds (mine had a £5500 jzm topend) but the point was they did this after plenty of use..

I'm interested in finding out about things outside the engine.. I looked at a car last week that was mechanical sound. It's bodybwork was also excellent but it's interior squeeked over every bump and looked well soiled!

The 964 didn't squeak and it's seats, plastics etc etc all aged really well. It felt bomb proof to me, the best car I've ever owned! It was solid.

The mechanical clunk of a door shutting or the way the dash just wouldn't rattle in my old car left me with an impression that Porsche are robust, you pay for it but it delivers.

My brother ownes the car below... it's lovely and feels amazing but gets driven in the dry for a couple of thousand km a year! Hardly a test of its build quality. EVO demonstrated with the 458 that it could be used everyday and rack on the miles without any bother.

Can you do this in the 996 & 997?

Before my current daily M3 i had a Lotus Evora.. Lovely thing but after 20k miles (30k miles in total) was showing signs of fatigue all over. Shocks squeek, Water ingress, Headlight lens peeling, seats dye fading, rubber seals looking grey and numerous other minor snags like the sat nav freezing. Sold it and bought an M3 that has been faultless and just hasn't aged a day aesthetically in 2.5 years and 20k miles.. it's solid and built out of quality materials! Great car but not me, I don't love it like the Evora or the 964.

Is the 996 and 997 a quality product? Will it do 150k miles and still feel good?

(Off topic - I know about the ims etc but will it last? I'm looking at 2004/05 996's and 2006 997's :thumb:)


Evenin' BK,
It sounds like the car you looked at last week just maybe hadn't been looked after as well as some.
The interior of my 996 is light grey so shows up grime if there is any. My grey 964 interior was exactly the same albeit it had 90k on but they aren't poles apart. Grimy gear knob, steering wheel a bit shiny etc. All easily rectified.

My 964s ( I had a C2 manual coupe, then a 964 Turbo) weren't problem free in the interior department either. Broken window switches, my sunroof panel headlining used to buzz and the leather dashboard on 964s always shrinks, which in turn makes both ends pull up where they meet the doors, pulling the vents out of shape and fitment.

They did feel like they were produced slightly better and they probably were, as it was before the bean counters took the reigns at Porsche. Having said that, boy can 964s rust!

I've never got the door clunk thing and have commented on it before. The old cars make a "clack" sound which I think is bloody 'orrible. :D
Add to that the fact that you can usually hear the heater flaps under the car rattle too, as it rocks from closing the door and I never thought of it as a sound that said "quality". I appreciate that I am in the minority here though, especially amongst air-cooled guys.
A 996 sounds solid and sealed in comparison, but either way I don't base too much of my enjoyment from listening to my door close. :grin:

A good 996/7 is totally usable as a daily and barring a major mechanical failure will definitely last in exactly the same way a 964 would. They'll need a suspension refresh to be tip top and other general items such as rads and condensers, but they are still very well made.

I love the Loti but think of them the same as TVR. Great for a summer car but not built to last. Your M3 on the other hand will be superb, as you've said. I'm a massive BMW fan.

If I was you I'd search for a Gen 2 997 which are from 2009 onwards. DFi engine with almost no reported failures, in comparison to gen1 cars. A Gen 2 GTS would be a great daily car. My neighbour had one and has just changed it for a 991GTS.

Nice 991RS your brother has there. Awesome cars.
I'm at Silverstone in a couple of weeks time drive the Gen2 GT3. Looking forward to it. I was there last year driving a Macan Turbo and GT4. Great fun.
The halo models are the only new cars that interest me. :wink:

Anyway, good luck with your search. :thumb:

Great thread. A 911 is a 911 then...

Just bought my second 911 today

:thumb:
 
e92 said:
BK911 said:
Marky911 said:
BK911 said:
@harv
@marky911

I see your points about aircooled nostalgia and they also needed rebuilds (mine had a £5500 jzm topend) but the point was they did this after plenty of use..

I'm interested in finding out about things outside the engine.. I looked at a car last week that was mechanical sound. It's bodybwork was also excellent but it's interior squeeked over every bump and looked well soiled!

The 964 didn't squeak and it's seats, plastics etc etc all aged really well. It felt bomb proof to me, the best car I've ever owned! It was solid.

The mechanical clunk of a door shutting or the way the dash just wouldn't rattle in my old car left me with an impression that Porsche are robust, you pay for it but it delivers.

My brother ownes the car below... it's lovely and feels amazing but gets driven in the dry for a couple of thousand km a year! Hardly a test of its build quality. EVO demonstrated with the 458 that it could be used everyday and rack on the miles without any bother.

Can you do this in the 996 & 997?

Before my current daily M3 i had a Lotus Evora.. Lovely thing but after 20k miles (30k miles in total) was showing signs of fatigue all over. Shocks squeek, Water ingress, Headlight lens peeling, seats dye fading, rubber seals looking grey and numerous other minor snags like the sat nav freezing. Sold it and bought an M3 that has been faultless and just hasn't aged a day aesthetically in 2.5 years and 20k miles.. it's solid and built out of quality materials! Great car but not me, I don't love it like the Evora or the 964.

Is the 996 and 997 a quality product? Will it do 150k miles and still feel good?

(Off topic - I know about the ims etc but will it last? I'm looking at 2004/05 996's and 2006 997's :thumb:)


Evenin' BK,
It sounds like the car you looked at last week just maybe hadn't been looked after as well as some.
The interior of my 996 is light grey so shows up grime if there is any. My grey 964 interior was exactly the same albeit it had 90k on but they aren't poles apart. Grimy gear knob, steering wheel a bit shiny etc. All easily rectified.

My 964s ( I had a C2 manual coupe, then a 964 Turbo) weren't problem free in the interior department either. Broken window switches, my sunroof panel headlining used to buzz and the leather dashboard on 964s always shrinks, which in turn makes both ends pull up where they meet the doors, pulling the vents out of shape and fitment.

They did feel like they were produced slightly better and they probably were, as it was before the bean counters took the reigns at Porsche. Having said that, boy can 964s rust!

I've never got the door clunk thing and have commented on it before. The old cars make a "clack" sound which I think is bloody 'orrible. :D
Add to that the fact that you can usually hear the heater flaps under the car rattle too, as it rocks from closing the door and I never thought of it as a sound that said "quality". I appreciate that I am in the minority here though, especially amongst air-cooled guys.
A 996 sounds solid and sealed in comparison, but either way I don't base too much of my enjoyment from listening to my door close. :grin:

A good 996/7 is totally usable as a daily and barring a major mechanical failure will definitely last in exactly the same way a 964 would. They'll need a suspension refresh to be tip top and other general items such as rads and condensers, but they are still very well made.

I love the Loti but think of them the same as TVR. Great for a summer car but not built to last. Your M3 on the other hand will be superb, as you've said. I'm a massive BMW fan.

If I was you I'd search for a Gen 2 997 which are from 2009 onwards. DFi engine with almost no reported failures, in comparison to gen1 cars. A Gen 2 GTS would be a great daily car. My neighbour had one and has just changed it for a 991GTS.

Nice 991RS your brother has there. Awesome cars.
I'm at Silverstone in a couple of weeks time drive the Gen2 GT3. Looking forward to it. I was there last year driving a Macan Turbo and GT4. Great fun.
The halo models are the only new cars that interest me. :wink:

Anyway, good luck with your search. :thumb:

Thanks for this input. Surfing pistonheads a lot now! 996's are more my budget and desire.

Drove the 991 RS two weeks ago in the mountains outside Nice.. Almost felt Lotus like in its hunkered down grippy way! Lotu are mechanically very robust (I also have a Supercharged Elise, two solid days at Spa and Zolder recently, felt exactly the same as the day before I drove it there.. but yup you're right, it's a bit of a summer car.. leaving it outside in the rain does it no good. But it's way more solid a prospect than a TVR!)

@str12 I'm test driving a 996 C4s tomorrow, really appeal to me. Love the line and interior. I'm a leftfield car type.. Alfa, Lotus and aircooled 911... 996 is now an older car but from what I'm reading a decent well engineered car. 100k miles won't be putting me off subject to all the refresh and engine stuff being sorted.

:thumbs:

Coming from an E92 m3, I'm not sure the 996 C4s would feel as fast (in a straight line), but you will enjoy other aspects such as the driving position, and the overall feeling you get in the Porsche - its hard to explain. Either way good luck :thumbs:

Thanks for the input. No need to explain, I get it.. Pulled the trigger on a 996 C4s today... it's really surprised me already. Yup straight line doesn't come up as quick but honestly I'm over that.. the way it encourages you to Rev and the way it steers and rides is more me. M3 is a sublime car, it's brilliant. I'm glad I've had one but the 911 is me :)
 
Nice one BK! Well done. I hope you're happy with it.

Coulstar - a 3.4 with a single row IMS is rare and borescore on a 3.4 is rare too. Is it definitely 3.4 not 3.6?

As for lightning striking twice, yes it can because Porsche just plonked a replacement engine in with all the same design flaws as the one that had went bang.
Having said that if it's a 3.4 just use good oil, changed regularly and when you next have the box out for a clutch etc, just flip the seal off the IMSB and you should be fine *.

If a 3.6 then you can do the same to the IMSB but you'll always have the risk of borescore. A boroscope is wise pre purchase then hope you get a good few years before it gets a hold.

*There are obviously a whole load of other issues the engines can suffer from but where do you draw the line? A 3.4 rarely borescores so if you flip the bearing cover off and also check things like the waterpump don't still look like the original then with a bit of luck you should be ok.
 
Yeah its defo a 3.4. The gearbox is getting or has just been rebuilt at the moment and the owner confirmed that it is a single row. I told him its a perfect time to pull the seal out but not sure if they have done it or not.

Hoping to see it this weekend. On paper a very nice car. I know there is a risk with all these cars at this age but it would appear this is less risk. Only hope I like the colour.
 
Exactly mate, if it checks out and you like it, get it bought.
Will be a bonus if they've flipped the seal though.
Quick sale of your Corrado. I saw your post on the other thread. Nice one. :thumb:
 
Was 85k last week, just passed 87k this week after a trip from Aberdeen to Spa, didn't miss a beat :D
 
101k on the clocks, but engine is having a rebuild. Also planning on refreshing the gearbox. Even the seats are new and most suspension components were replaced before I bought it, having had it checked out and wax treated at CofG. New fuel pump and lines and coolant hoses, need to check the ones running to the front, so should have a fairly new car under the skin. Still, 101k is high mileage, so completely worthless.
 
sim996 said:
101k on the clocks, but engine is having a rebuild. Also planning on refreshing the gearbox. Even the seats are new and most suspension components were replaced before I bought it, having had it checked out and wax treated at CofG. New fuel pump and lines and coolant hoses, need to check the ones running to the front, so should have a fairly new car under the skin. Still, 101k is high mileage, so completely worthless.

Why are you rebuilding?
 


That was on the standard not rebuilt 3.4 motor with the original IMS still in place. It did 306K before it was rebuilt into a 3.7 as the copper count in the oil was heading up fairly rapidly and it had gone fairly soft due to valve seat regression at that point.

I'm slacking at the moment having only done 13K or so since May so won't crack 350K this year but it's going up to the Arctic early next year so that trip should nose it over that mark :)

From when I purchased the car at just before 100K to when it was rebuilt it had the rev limiter at least once a day, was run on 10K mile service intervals on Mobil 1, did a lot of time on various circuits and was generally well used. It was always warmed up properly before being given some stick but aside from that was far less pampered than a lot of peoples cars. When the engine was stripped the bores were unscored but oval to the limit of what Porsche consider acceptable, pistons were good, cams were immaculate but the valves had stretched somewhat, valve seats were very worn and the chain tensioners were on their last legs.

Here's the measurements:


I think the key here is that it was used every day, did big runs, probably had half the cold starts of a garage queen car and spent a lot of it's time spinning at 4K RPM + which is generally a better place for an M96 engine to be than idle or lumping along sub 2K rpm.

In my experience (I've done over half a million miles in M96 powered cars) the early 3.4L cars are very reliable, even at high mileages. So there is no excuse not to use them :D
 
I love reading stuff like this having only covered a mere 100k miles. :thumb:
 

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