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Why 'only' 480 BHP in the 997 Turbo

Thought the Gen II's were easier to boost up the power on than the Gen 1's?

That Gen II I drove had had a mental amount of money spent on it, I think the new inter-coolers were nearly 10k!

A Kline and a remap with some moderate engine mods should get you up to nearly 600 bhp, don't know what the PDK boxes are rated to but they reckon the tip box is good up to 900 plus bhp!
 
easternjets said:
Thought the Gen II's were easier to boost up the power on than the Gen 1's?

They are :thumb: you have to spend about £10K more on a Gen1 to get near the power of a mapped Gen2, the Gen 2 doesn't require turbo or intercooler upgrades.
 
My findings are:

Map an exhaust should see about 540ish bhp then the VTG's get very hot so you can get more out of them, but its intercoolers and clutch time, some have achieved around 590bhp. then to get up to and over 700 bhp its hybrids and injectors +

The Standard Mezger engine is good for 900bhp unless this is an old wife's tale and the manual and Tip gearbox is also very strong.

Any Turbo car is tunable, and there is more to be had from most manufactures, its easy just up the boost, its keeping thngs cool, with a fine line what the engine can take without detonation is the issue.
 
Martian said:
Tuners inventing figures is quite/very common. With a manual car, the standard clutch won't take more than about 540BHP/530ftlb (720Nm) and this I can confirm personally with my map. My mild map around this figure resulted in the clutch slipping on occasions, when the exhaust was fitted and freed up a few more, the clutch would slip a lot of the time. An uprated clutch was fitted and now it's perfect.

So any tuner offering >540 for a manual car with standard clutch is 'aving you on. Pretty sure member 'Isysman' has a standard clutch with a DMS '630BHP' map, that just confirms the tuners exaggeration.

Tiptronics are obviously different though.

DMS never offered 630hp. That 620 figure was a result of their rolling road testing after installing all the parts.
 
isysman said:
Martian said:
Tuners inventing figures is quite/very common. With a manual car, the standard clutch won't take more than about 540BHP/530ftlb (720Nm) and this I can confirm personally with my map. My mild map around this figure resulted in the clutch slipping on occasions, when the exhaust was fitted and freed up a few more, the clutch would slip a lot of the time. An uprated clutch was fitted and now it's perfect.

So any tuner offering >540 for a manual car with standard clutch is 'aving you on. Pretty sure member 'Isysman' has a standard clutch with a DMS '630BHP' map, that just confirms the tuners exaggeration.

Tiptronics are obviously different though.

DMS never offered 630hp. That 620 figure was a result of their rolling road testing after installing all the parts.

They did not change the turbo's though right?
 
Wow, just found the DMS thread you are referring to. You guys wan't to keep that argument going 3 years later!
 
Martian said:
OK.

IIRC, Isysman has a standard clutch, turbo's and intercoolers. DMS are telling porkie pies if they say it's running at 620......

I'd say so, yeah.

circa 620 is what I'm running in my PDK gen 2. Upgrade as follows:-

Full Kline s/s system. Decat, well empty cat module. I do have a pair of 200 cell cat's if required.

Kline equal length manifold headers. These are nice, and you can see how the exhaust gas flow will be improved from OE.

Oh, and carbon fibre exhaust tips, he he. Obviously no power gains here but makes it look a bit a naughty. I like naughty....

IPD intake plenum. Slightly more volume and freer air flowing than OE I believe.

New set of re gapped spark plugs. The gap to electrode must be narrowed slightly to avoid 'flameout'

9E remap to bring this lot together. Boost pressure increased to 1.4 bar from 1.2. All protection parameters and set points left in place.

I say I'm circa 620 but I've not dynode it. Ken ran some telemetry and got 60-130 in 6.9 secs against 7.1 from the 997GT2RS. So I'm in the region of. It's bloody fast and I certainly don't hanker after any more poke!

Prior to this lot being carried out 9E give the car a health check including the all important compression test.
 
Ishay said:
Wow, just found the DMS thread you are referring to. You guys wan't to keep that argument going 3 years later!

Huh?

For a bit of balance, I have a DMS stage 1 remap. When I originally enquired about it, was told it would give in the region of 575BHP. In hindsight, that was a bit of BS on their behalf because soon after I learnt about the VTG issues with heat and tuning, I read this EVO/DMS article, which also states that you need bigger Turbos to get >600.

http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911/6506/porsche-911
 
Apologies the thread was on another forum and you weren't on it. Isysman was though (as the OP) and having read all 7 pages now I'm surprised he's popped up here still say 620 but never did posted the "independent" rolling road video that was promised or any other of the other proposed tests.

So, for now I think I'll choose to listen to the advice that mid-500s is absolute top with still quite a lot of work; that little, or nothing, is achieved with a remap only, and little more with just an exhaust (and that by then I'll need an expensive clutch anyway)

As a result, for now, I may not doing anything for power reasons. I'll have to see how long I can last with the stock sound though!
 
The standard car will do 540bhp on software alone, but the intake temps will rise on full throttle pulls in high gears and power will quickly drop. If it's going to be used in anger, 520 bhp from 1.1bar is where it should be tuned to. With 997.2 intercoolers, 540 bhp can be maintained. This means multiple top speed runs, track days etc, around 1.15 bar.

The absolute maximum on the standard turbo's with exhaust, intercooers, plenum upgrade and meth is 600bhp at around 1.25bar.

You can add 50bhp to these figures for a Gen2 car due to larger compressor wheels and much better intercoolers.

The DMS maps have huge torque - we have seen over 1.5bar of boost in the midrange. Backpressure builds generating huge amounts of heat. When dyno'd under loaf - not just a 5 second pull, peak power is actually below 500bhp as things get so hot. It's lucky the ECU is clever enough to keep things in check or there would be a lot of melted engines. Marketing over talent.

M.
 
I have sports chrono but my boost gauge shows 1.0 in both modes. Is that right?
 
The gauge is sadly pretty useless, but 1 bar on non sports mode may mean it has been tuned.
 
How possible is it for a specialist tuner to tell?
 

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