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C4 GTS!

weejimmy said:
Ah, not much to report I'm afraid as I've had a hectic weekend transporting my son to cricket matches all over Bucks so it's not had a lot of use this weekend. And I cycled to work on Fri and today as the weather was too nice to be sat in a box!

I did take a mate for a quick 15 min spin last night though. It's going to take me a while to adjust to all the new noises and characteristics of the 3.0 TT Vs the 3.8 as currently it just feels different. I am sure I am going to like it though.

I definitely wouldn't bother the the axle life unless you live up a mountain. It seems to go up and down things just as easily as the c4s which was just -10mm from std.

There is no doubt the -20m is firm, but I think I prefer that to the float the C4s had. It makes it feel more focused and special, so if I was ordering again I'd probably stick with the -20mm. Visually I am not sure it makes a lot of difference though. Unless two were parked side by side one at -20 and one at -10 I doubt you could tell the difference.

Thanks for that weejimmy, I was already 99% sure that the -20mm suspension was the way forward, so your comments have pretty much settled it.

Now, do I add rear axle steer and wave goodbye to even more of my hard earned cash?
 
Kiernan said:
weejimmy said:
Now, do I add rear axle steer and wave goodbye to even more of my hard earned cash?

In a word - yes! It's almost universally liked by all who drive it, the demo I drove certainly turned in quicker than normal. PDCC on the other hand gets mixed opinions - I have it on mine, but I also have the -20 PASM so I'm hoping the two go together nicely. I drove a C4S with -20 and to me it was a bit harsh, I suppose it depends what the roads you use most are like.
 
Looks lovely weejimmy, but then I would say that!

I'm a massive advocate of the RWS (it's subtle, but feels very agile and stable just when you need those characteristics).

I'm also a big fan of PDCC, which I'm conscious is a less popular option but to me, a car that doesn't roll actually feels more comfortable. Does it feel artificial going round corners / roundabouts quickly without any roll? Possibly, but I like the surreal sensation. Maybe not one for the purists though.

Now, the ride quality on this -20mm suspension. It sure is firm. Firm in a good way though, as it's well controlled and the structure feels very solid (no noises etc). There is one aspect I'm having to get used to, and that's a higher level of vibration at high speed. It feels like a very minor wheel balance issue, with a slight shimmy through the wheel and pedals only. It could be a wheel balance slightly out (big wheels are very sensitive) so I'm getting it checked by my dealer tomorrow, however it's not the same on every surface so I suspect it's more the stiff set-up just allowing more road 'feedback' through.

Dynamically, because of the poor road surfaces we have, I would probably choose the -10mm. It would drive better with a slightly less aggressive setup as it always helps to have a degree of compliance on our roads. However, everytime I look at it I'm glad I chose the -20mm as it has a stance that's just so right.
 
Wowsa. Got to drive the GTS on my normal commute today (had meetings so roadbike stayed at home) and it is fabulous. It is both more focused and yet more cultured than my 991.1 C4s was.

The ride is both firmer and yet more supple. It is in no way crashy or harsh, but you know that the road is undulating, but very little of any rutting etc comes back through the car.

I am going to have to disagree with Palmball on the -20mm. For me it feels fantastic and isn't a concern or a disappointment on any level. I like the feeling of it being hunkered down and whilst firm it is very compliant. I put the dampers into hard to see how that was ... and if anything it felt even better! No harsher but even faster reacting. I think it is the work of genius!

I went for the -20m as I wanted a 'real' GTS if you get what I mean. That's also why I went for the full GTS interior and Carmine. I wanted the full on experience. I didnt want to look back and think I had a watered down version. I was very worried about the -20mm prior to delivery but no more. I think -10mm would be a little more relaxed, but that isnt what I wanted and the -20mm just isnt harsh at all. It just feels like the car is alive.

Rear wheel steering? 100% go for it. The car feels agile and nimble on turn in. If the 4 feels this quick on its nose, the 2 must feel like a racing whippet down a drain pipe.

It feels so alive and yet planted. Alive and yet not figity.

Super, super happy. :thumb:

20.jpg
 
:oops:
 
Ooops... double and triple post! Clearly a bit excitable this morning having driven the GTS on roads I know well! :thumb:
 
Palmball said:
There is one aspect I'm having to get used to, and that's a higher level of vibration at high speed. It feels like a very minor wheel balance issue, with a slight shimmy through the wheel and pedals only. It could be a wheel balance slightly out (big wheels are very sensitive) so I'm getting it checked by my dealer tomorrow, however it's not the same on every surface so I suspect it's more the stiff set-up just allowing more road 'feedback' through.

This doesnt really match with my findings at all thus far. Mine smooths out more the quicker you are going. No harshness or shimmy at all.

The R8 I tried was a V10 Plus with the magnetic dampers and for me that crashed and bucked at low speed and I felt like I was being thumped about in my seat. The GTS feels way better damped to me. Plus I just adore the Alcantara seats. They really lock you in place but are much more confy than the leather seats from my C4s. I found the R8 seats hugely uncomfortable. They were wooden and unsupportive.

I have had lower back issues in the past (lessened after swapping Squash for a road bike) so I am very sensitive on ride. The two cars I tried at the PEC were both standard ride height wise. One was a GTS Coupe with manual and the other a C4 GTS Convertible. Of the two I liked the ride in the Convertible more. I checked and double checked the specs of both with my salesman (he pulled them up on the Porsche system) and both were standard GTS ride height. So I decided the manual was flavouring my feedback (I had a strong adverse reaction to it FWIW - contrary to expectations) hence why I preferred the PDK convertible.

But about 3 weeks ago I realised that the Convertible as standard is -10mm, not the -20 mm of the Coupe. Queue total overthinking and panic as to how the ride would be as by that point my car was built! But really, it is totally fine.

Maybe PDCC is also playing into this? I don't know. I almost ticked it but in the end I decided that I like a car that has some roll and movement. In reality the GTS suspension reacts so quickly I can't feel any body roll even without PDCC. So I am happy I didnt spec it.

For me, standard at -20mm and RWS all the way. I wouldn't bother with Axle lift unless you have a vertical driveway!
 
HSC911 said:
That's so nice Jimmy!

Thank you!

So good I tried to post the image three times. Dropped my son for school bus this morning, his comment was "that is just stunning" as he walked away shaking his head. 8)
 
weejimmy said:
Palmball said:
There is one aspect I'm having to get used to, and that's a higher level of vibration at high speed. It feels like a very minor wheel balance issue, with a slight shimmy through the wheel and pedals only. It could be a wheel balance slightly out (big wheels are very sensitive) so I'm getting it checked by my dealer tomorrow, however it's not the same on every surface so I suspect it's more the stiff set-up just allowing more road 'feedback' through.

This doesnt really match with my findings at all thus far. Mine smooths out more the quicker you are going. No harshness or shimmy at all.

The R8 I tried was a V10 Plus with the magnetic dampers and for me that crashed and bucked at low speed and I felt like I was being thumped about in my seat. The GTS feels way better damped to me. Plus I just adore the Alcantara seats. They really lock you in place but are much more confy than the leather seats from my C4s. I found the R8 seats hugely uncomfortable. They were wooden and unsupportive.

I have had lower back issues in the past (lessened after swapping Squash for a road bike) so I am very sensitive on ride. The two cars I tried at the PEC were both standard ride height wise. One was a GTS Coupe with manual and the other a C4 GTS Convertible. Of the two I liked the ride in the Convertible more. I checked and double checked the specs of both with my salesman (he pulled them up on the Porsche system) and both were standard GTS ride height. So I decided the manual was flavouring my feedback (I had a strong adverse reaction to it FWIW - contrary to expectations) hence why I preferred the PDK convertible.

But about 3 weeks ago I realised that the Convertible as standard is -10mm, not the -20 mm of the Coupe. Queue total overthinking and panic as to how the ride would be as by that point my car was built! But really, it is totally fine.

Maybe PDCC is also playing into this? I don't know. I almost ticked it but in the end I decided that I like a car that has some roll and movement. In reality the GTS suspension reacts so quickly I can't feel any body roll even without PDCC. So I am happy I didnt spec it.

For me, standard at -20mm and RWS all the way. I wouldn't bother with Axle lift unless you have a vertical driveway!


I think a couple of things to update / clarify on....

1. I took the car to the dealer today and one of the front wheels was indeed out of balance, which they corrected. Trying it this afternoon and that indeed appears to have corrected the vibration issue. Phew!

2. I totally agree with your comments about the R8's ride and poor level of low speed damping. It was catastrophically underdamped so it bounced everywhere up to about 20mph. At higher speed it was fine so it seems like some really poor low speed tuning of the electronic dampers (I have now driven 4 new shape R8's and all are equally as poor). It simply bounced its way over speed bumps...and beyond.

However the R8 did have a softer sprung ride. The 911's spring rate appears to be much much firmer. I'm not saying this is bad thing because as you say, the 911 is so much better damped, especially at low speed, which will be why it feels more comfortable over things like speed bumps - you feel more of the bump at first but then it deals with the bump in one controlled up and down movement, whereas the R8 would cushion the initial bump more at first, then continue to bounce beyond it which is a far less comfortable feeling.
 
Palmball said:
I think a couple of things to update / clarify on....

1. I took the car to the dealer today and one of the front wheels was indeed out of balance, which they corrected. Trying it this afternoon and that indeed appears to have corrected the vibration issue. Phew!

2. I totally agree with your comments about the R8's ride and poor level of low speed damping. It was catastrophically underdamped so it bounced everywhere up to about 20mph. At higher speed it was fine so it seems like some really poor low speed tuning of the electronic dampers (I have now driven 4 new shape R8's and all are equally as poor). It simply bounced its way over speed bumps...and beyond.

However the R8 did have a softer sprung ride. The 911's spring rate appears to be much much firmer. I'm not saying this is bad thing because as you say, the 911 is so much better damped, especially at low speed, which will be why it feels more comfortable over things like speed bumps - you feel more of the bump at first but then it deals with the bump in one controlled up and down movement, whereas the R8 would cushion the initial bump more at first, then continue to bounce beyond it which is a far less comfortable feeling.

I'll buy that!

Would I go for -20mm if I was ordering today? Hard to say. Probably yes. It is just so hard to really know the exact spec of what you are driving on a test drive... and how we feel about subjective things like ride changes with our moods anyway.

FWIW mine felt 'very' firm on the way home last night!

:roll:
 
Looks absolutely stunning Weejimmy and I hope you're now loving it over the old car :mrgreen:
 
Jenzbullets said:
Looks absolutely stunning Weejimmy and I hope you're now loving it over the old car :mrgreen:

Definitely lots to appreciate Vs the 991.1 C4s. I am going to have to retrain myself not to bother revving the engine out though. Plus I am missing some of the aural emotion of the 3.8. The 3.0TT sounds very nice in isolation and in many ways is a more cultured sound, but it isn't quite so good at playing the hooligan when you want to make some noise!
 
weejimmy said:
and how we feel about subjective things like ride changes with our moods anyway.

FWIW mine felt 'very' firm on the way home last night!

:roll:

Couldn't have put it better myself - it really is true that how you interpret ride quality can depend on a mood a lot, and whether you're 'in' the mood.

Sometimes it can be just nice to get into a big softly sprung car which would be sh!te in the bends, but nicely insulating on rough straight road.
 

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