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bparry911
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Joined: 24 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Buying my first 911. Advice please? Reply with quote

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase my first 911 and would like some advice please on what to look out for and which is considered the best? thumbsup

I will be doing roughly 5-6k miles per year, using it mainly on the weekends and looking for a car that will hold it's value or even the potential to appreciate. (I would like to find the right car and keep for a few years).

Currently considering the following;

- 996 C4S manual coupe (Either one which has had an updated IMS bearing and clutch or factor this in my price and get this done once I purchase the car)
- 996 C2 manual coupe (same as above re IMS and clutch). Quite like either standard spec or Aero kit.
- 997 Gen 2 manual coupe (like the idea that there are no engine problems as with 996 and 997.1)

Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks
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Stever845
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2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Budget £
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arry
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My advice is to go in eyes wide open.

If you want a car that can appreciate in value then you'd need to have servicing / repair carried out in expensive places. The odd 2500 quid bill isn't unheard of and whilst the car doesn't depreciate particularly the overall cost of ownership is high in the terms of pound per mile driven.

In order to justify it you'd do well to appreciate driving one (not just owning one) for the pleasure is brings. Which is one reason for buying your post doesn't include - that's a shame really, for a drivers car Wink
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Robertb
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gut feel (though I'd love to be proved wrong!) is that only the best lowest mile examples of 996 4Ss will appreciate. There are just too many about, dealers already asking strong money. Best I'm hoping for is that it will hold its value.

996 C2... buy an early one, mechanical throttle and LSD ideally.

997.2... I'll probably get shot down in flames here, I reckon these are great cars for driving and using. But, possibly too modern and refined for 'weekend toy' status. A manual car will have the best prospects for future classic status as buyers will want the full 'analogue' experience.

Try them and see what you think. I'd be happy to have any of them.

IMS bearing is a relatively cheap mod, particularly if done with the clutch.
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Phil 997
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2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bparry911 an interesting post, if you want something that will definitely go up in value , when you find it can you let me know Thumb I will have 2 . I suggest Artwork or property.

If you want a car to enjoy driving as they were built to do its hard to beat a 911. and they shouldn't lose too much money like most other cars do. but they do need to be maintained and 911s that are hardly driven IMO have more issues as these cars were designed to be driven and enjoyed and don't like being stood around idle .

Re your options it's very wide given you talking about cars from 12k to 50k. I think you firstly need to decide budget and usage for instance you could buy a 12k 996 and drive the wheels off it having a great fun and a huge grin and if you got 6k back at the end of your time with it . What a lot of fun for the cost of a holiday.

or you could buy a 50k 997.2 Never use or enjoy it or spent the time you do use it worrying constantly about depreciation and costs which is no fun and to be honest you might as well leave the money in the bank.

So IMO best to decide what you want from a car and if its about investment and returns then you need to be looking at classic Porsches or the GT models

I know its a very difficult subject and good luck with whatever you decide and congrats on finding the forum before the car you will get some good advise and pointers on here.
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bparry911
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Joined: 24 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies all.

In terms of budget this will vary on whichever model I am looking at but probably a top price around £35k which is why I have been considering the 997 Gen 2 which I've seen a few early ones at that price range.

It may have seemed unclear from my post, I'm not expecting this to be an 'investment car' to make lots of money as it will be the car I use everyday but if the car held it's value over 2 years I would be happy with that. I know the cost of running is higher but I just treat that as the cost of running my pride and joy.

Also, I didn't mention that I'm buying a 911 as a drivers car as I thought this was to be assumed..

I just wanted some opinions really on comparing models and which would be best suited as my everyday (relatively low miles during the week but lots of fun weekend use Very Happy

Thanks
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Alex
Le Mans
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditch the idea about doing anything with the IMS bearing, you'll be wasting your money. Make sure if it's a 3.6 or 3.8 NA car you get a bore scope done to ensure the bores aren't scored. If they are you're looking at a hefty rebuild. Gen 2 aren't showing any serious problems yet (in big numbers) as they're still too young. If you're worried about engine problems look for a Hartech rebuilt engine, otherwise go with the flow, just make sure everything adds up - service history, condition, no scored bores, etc.

Always come here for advice and try not to read too much into some of the horror stories, just be mindful that it may happen.

Don't do anything silly like purchase a car your heart says yes but your brain says no.

Good luck!! Thumb
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Monkeynutz
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Joined: 05 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only advice (as a recent purchaser myself) I would offer is don't get hooked up in all the C2S and C4S (particularly the 'S' bit) malarkey as I did.
I don't regret my 2010 C4S purchase at all, I LOVE it, but for a lot less I could have had a 2009 997.2 C2. They are great cars and I have since learned to appreciate them a lot more than I did.

Find a well optioned one and you will not be left wanting. There is a lot to be said for having one of these cars and being able to drive them as they were intended to be driven and doing so as often as you can.

Good S models in 2 or 4 variety are holding values well for the later 997.2 low mileage cars but I think there is still some depreciation in them. With 996 & 997.1 values as they are I can't see the later non S variants dropping more in percentage terms so offer fantastic value IMO.
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bparry911
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Joined: 24 Apr 2017
Posts: 27
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies both, that's useful to know.

In terms of IMS though, wouldn't it make sense if it's not been done to upgrade the IMS to K&N or oil fed which looks possible for about £1,200 ish?? But still would be nice to find a car with this done already.

Also, in terms of RMS, is there an upgrade for this? (I will have a PPI on a car anyway)

Yeah I agree with you comment about the S models, I'm not too hung up about them, I would rather the car be in perfect condition with strong history etc. (However I do like the look of the wide bodied C4S..)

Three cars have caught my eye in the different brackets. What are your thoughts?

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-911-996-carrera-4s-2003/7107701

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-996-carrera-2-2002-my52--landn--m030--pse-fsh/6987671

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201704174507717?sort=sponsored&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&advertising-location=at_cars&model=911&year-from=2009&postcode=nw24nt&radius=1500&make=PORSCHE&page=1

Thanks thumbsup
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Monkeynutz
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Joined: 05 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at that gen 2 car earlier and nearly linked it. It's nice and the colour is very nice! Of course with any car you would want a proper inspection including over-rev report on a manual but I still think it is a lot of car for the money.

Still a lot of merits for the other 2 you linked and the 996s are a much nicer car in the flesh albeit the interior dates them significantly IMO, that said there's a lot of car there and a whole lot of fun to be had for £20k.
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Phil 997
Le Mans
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
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2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah now I understand more of what your looking for from your 911. cars built after march 06 with have the newer IMS bearings but the 996.2 and 997.1 as Alex said in small numbers do suffer borescore, so as part of your ppi I would suggest you get a borescope done . that way you know exactly where you stand.

IMO and based on what your indicating, I would look at a Post march 06 997.1 C4S which will be around the high 20K area, or a GEN2 C2 or C2S with slightly higher than ave mileage these will be £33k up to the top of your budget. with the miles you said you do it would end up as an ave mile car so you can win that way.

One last thing to consider within your budget and if you intend to really drive the car, it would be well worth test driving a 996 turbo for that raw driving experience and that might just be what you want and they are increasing in value currently but how long for is any ones guess, problem is that in turn pushed the 997 turbo prices up and when they get close to a used 991 turbo which has a slowly falling price at present, that's when we go into the unknown . good luck keep us posted.
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bparry911
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Joined: 24 Apr 2017
Posts: 27
Location: London


PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I like the look of that 997 Gen 2, really alternative colour too..

Thanks for the response Phil 997, some useful stuff in there.

I hadn't really considered a 997.1 but it seems a good option to me now as they tend to look around £10k cheaper than the Gen 2's. So are the post March 06 997.1's IMS problem free due to the better bearing? Yes I will have a bore scope done anyway. But is there an upgrade for the RMS too which could be worth doing/looking out for?

Finally, regarding the C2 I shared the link to, does this look too pricey for a 996 C2 or not? It does look a lovely thing but conscious it's nearly in C4S territory.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-996-carrera-2-2002-my52--landn--m030--pse-fsh/6987671

P.s love the 996 turbo but think I've missed the boat on the spec I'd want (manual coupe with mid miles - can't see any at mid 30's any more)

Thanks Smile
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bparry911
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Joined: 24 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh forgot to say, thoughts on 997.1 3.6??

This is getting hard even picking the model I want..
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Robertb
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
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2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bparry911 wrote:
Yes I like the look of that 997 Gen 2, really alternative colour too..

Thanks for the response Phil 997, some useful stuff in there.

I hadn't really considered a 997.1 but it seems a good option to me now as they tend to look around £10k cheaper than the Gen 2's. So are the post March 06 997.1's IMS problem free due to the better bearing? Yes I will have a bore scope done anyway. But is there an upgrade for the RMS too which could be worth doing/looking out for?

Finally, regarding the C2 I shared the link to, does this look too pricey for a 996 C2 or not? It does look a lovely thing but conscious it's nearly in C4S territory.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-996-carrera-2-2002-my52--landn--m030--pse-fsh/6987671

P.s love the 996 turbo but think I've missed the boat on the spec I'd want (manual coupe with mid miles - can't see any at mid 30's any more)

Thanks Smile


That C2 looks a peach... yes its close to 4S money, but its a much better car than a 4S would likely be for the money, if that makes any sense.

Its had all the right work done to it, with all the right options, owned by someone who's looked after it.

Re 997 3.6... lots to be said for these- lower risk of bore scoring, less complex, no PASM etc.
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MNC911
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

35£k 997.2 every day of the week, there's plentiful to choose from
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201704174507717?sort=mileage&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&model=911&postcode=sw153tr&year-from=2008&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&make=PORSCHE&price-to=40000&page=1

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201703012794394?model=911&advertising-location=at_cars&make=PORSCHE&year-from=2008&radius=1500&postcode=sw153tr&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&price-to=40000&sort=mileage&page=2


..http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201701101173439?model=911&advertising-location=at_cars&make=PORSCHE&year-from=2008&radius=1500&postcode=sw153tr&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&price-to=40000&sort=mileage&page=2
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Alex
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because there's an IMS bearing replacement out there that's expensive - don't confuse this as an upgrade. Some local washing machine shops will sell you a far superior product for £30.
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Phil 997
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2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bparry911 wrote:
Yes I like the look of that 997 Gen 2, really alternative colour too..

Thanks for the response Phil 997, some useful stuff in there.

I hadn't really considered a 997.1 but it seems a good option to me now as they tend to look around £10k cheaper than the Gen 2's. So are the post March 06 997.1's IMS problem free due to the better bearing? Yes I will have a bore scope done anyway. But is there an upgrade for the RMS too which could be worth doing/looking out for?

Finally, regarding the C2 I shared the link to, does this look too pricey for a 996 C2 or not? It does look a lovely thing but conscious it's nearly in C4S territory.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-996-carrera-2-2002-my52--landn--m030--pse-fsh/6987671

P.s love the 996 turbo but think I've missed the boat on the spec I'd want (manual coupe with mid miles - can't see any at mid 30's any more)

Thanks Smile


Yes mate the post march 06 gen1 has the better IMS regarded as a solution to the previous one. as with the 996 if you found a perfect car pre 06 then the upgrade IMS is available circa £1000. Its only my opinion but the 997.1 has hit the bottom of the depreciation curve it cant drop as the 996 is sitting just behind it and slowly increasing which in turn will force the 997.1 price to stay flat, other than the special models I think this is where its at, because the 996 cant continue to rise as the 997.1 is in that price slot and cant go up much as the 997.2 is sitting there,the 997.2 cant go up much as the 991.1 is sitting in that price slot . Now what we dont know is how the market and used car buyers will react to the 991.2 as for many inc. me making it a 3ltr turbo has finished the 911 Sporting heritage line. So will the used 991.1 become more desirable than the 991.2 if thats the case then the whole 911 range pre 991.2 might continue to rise. Dont know Dont know

re the turbo 996 yes tips in your budget but not manuals
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Last edited by Phil 997 on Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

996 is the new 964. Once an ugly duckling, then rocketing beyond belief in value. I'm already getting scared about selling mine. I've even come to work on my Vespa to avoid putting miles on................nothing to do with my snapped DANSK.....honest Embarassed
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Robertb
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2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry, there is no chance of the 996 going up as long as I own one.

I'll let you know as soon as I sell as they will then rocket in value!

This looks like a nice, honest unmolested early 996 C2 manual, with ambers all round. Be amazed if this didn't go up in value in the next few years...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-996-Carrera-2-Manual-Coupe/132160421361
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bparry911
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Joined: 24 Apr 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies everyone, this forum has turned out to be very useful for me, I'm glad I asked some questions before buying anything Thumb

I'm going to keep an open mind when looking now, still looking at a manual coupe 996 c2 (normal or aero), 996 c4s, 997.1 (post march 06) and gen 2. hopefully I will find the right car soon

If anyone spots anything else popping up worth looking at please can you let me know.

Thanks Very Happy
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