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How to possibly avoid cylinder scoring

Kev M said:
Thanks for the detailed response Baz :thumb:

I looked a Cayman S two year ago which was 3.4 if i recall which had been rebuilt with just 34k on the clock due to bore damage. The engine built used Omega forged pistons which i was reliably told was the best option to negate this problem with coatings. I decided not to buy due to the engine history.

Genuinely curious... why did you not want to buy a car with that engine history, given that the bore damage had been put right and potentially future proofed by the new pistons?

Would it have made a difference if the rebuild had been done by a well-regarded specialist?
 
Think the key word was "potentially" having not had a Porsche before and the engine repaired i decided to walk away from any Porsche. I was looking at 997 but the Cayman looked great and the price was unreal.

At that time i was in between rally cars but then decided to buy one more :) which ive had for just over 2 years but ive had enough so time to retire in to a Porsche :)
 
Thread resurrection,

Having recently purchased a 997.1 I'm trying to glean as much info as possible to try and understand Bore Scoring.

From Baz's extremely well constructed posts from first hand experience with his hands on, eyes on approach working on repairing and racing I'm inclined to take what he has discovered and take it as written that his advice should be adhered to, a bit like visiting a Dr..... often they can diagnose a symptom by just looking at some one, a 5 min conversation almost confirms the diagnosis whilst a check over then looks to putting things right !

Any way I digress, I have a few questions though not wanting to challenge anything posted by any one who has contributed to this thread and I don't think any one has mentioned this ?

Q: is there any link between Engine Oil, the longevity of it's use I mean, whilst enthusiasts often replace engine oil religiously service regimes adhere to a 20.000 mile schedule or 2 years, whilst I know modern oils are man made and able to clean and lubricate for many thousands of miles or years does the breakdown in structure or it's ability to suspend particles increase wear ?

Also, what low temp thermostat are people using ? What application is from ? And more importantly how difficult / easy is it to replace.

Thanks
 
Yes - oil degrafes over useage, heat cycles and time. The heat cycles are probably the biggest contributor and the only one that isn't measured (unlike mileage and time). So for the cost of oil changes vs. rebuild is it worth chancing?
 
Definitely not, I'm still yet to be convinced that these extended service intervals weren't all part of the manufacturers trying to reduce the cost to us 'the motorist" read BUYER whilst maximising sales through paying monthly over 3 years for a vehicle that you never actually get to own ?


Looking at the first two years in essence all you have to do is put is put fuel and screen wash in it ? When faced with a service at the two year point it's often about that time people get rid, creating churn and re sale whilst ultimately damaging the engine with oil that's been swilling round for 2 years, great if you only ever buy new but not so good if you are buying used, even with a full service history it's no guarantee that it's been well looked after.
 
C4Silver said:
Definitely not, I'm still yet to be convinced that these extended service intervals weren't all part of the manufacturers trying to reduce the cost to us 'the motorist" read BUYER whilst maximising sales through paying monthly over 3 years for a vehicle that you never actually get to own ?


Looking at the first two years in essence all you have to do is put is put fuel and screen wash in it ? When faced with a service at the two year point it's often about that time people get rid, creating churn and re sale whilst ultimately damaging the engine with oil that's been swilling round for 2 years, great if you only ever buy new but not so good if you are buying used, even with a full service history it's no guarantee that it's been well looked after.

Agreed the whole 15k / 20k 2 yr oil services on majority of cars is a false economy longterm but as you point out whoever is in the new car for 2-3 yrs doesn't give a toss about longevity of components .
The longer service regimes most likely thought up to appeal to the corporate buyers buying multiple company cars , for them servicing costs would reflect in margins so they would no doubt love a 30k - 3 yr service pack :)
My criteria for my car search ( not just Porsche) is always to see the service record looking for ones that have had oil changes in between or at least well before the miles indicated the need .
 
:hand: modern oils are designed for it. I used to work for Castrol, then BP when they took over, sorry merged :grin:
I'm no chemist but I know that was a major area of development for many years.
Do you really think the manufacturers would risk law suits in the USA if it was found that the oils could not support the service intervals ?
The major consideration is ensuring that the correct grade of oil is used and allowed to get to the correct operating temperature correctly (although that tolerance has also much improved over the years).
 
I reckon I can ruin any oil in any car in the space of a week. You can't say that an oil will last a certain distance or period without knowing how the cars driven.

Wonder what the frequency for oil changes are on an F1 car - once a season? :chin: :floor:

Surely for someone to win a court case on oil longevity it'd have to be over a very higher % of users encountering the problem.
 
Alex said:
I reckon I can ruin any oil in any car in the space of a week. You can't say that an oil will last a certain distance or period without knowing how the cars driven.

Wonder what the frequency for oil changes are on an F1 car - once a season? :chin: :floor:

Surely for someone to win a court case on oil longevity it'd have to be over a very higher % of users encountering the problem.

F1 oil (in fact I was more familiar with WRC oils as the blending facility I managed ran the support team, yes the oil companies have full time support teams, or used to in my day) is very specialist with totally different operating criteria. I think you would find it hard to ruin an OEM oil operating within design parameters in a week ;-) believe me the testing labs try to do just that.
 
jonttt said:
I think you would find it hard to ruin an OEM oil operating within design parameters in a week ;-) believe me the testing labs try to do just that.

Who said anything about design parameters? :dont know:

Big-Bad-Wolves-Menashe-Noy-blowtorch.jpg
 
jonttt said:
:hand: modern oils are designed for it. I used to work for Castrol, then BP when they took over, sorry merged :grin:
I'm no chemist but I know that was a major area of development for many years.
Do you really think the manufacturers would risk law suits in the USA if it was found that the oils could not support the service intervals ?
The major consideration is ensuring that the correct grade of oil is used and allowed to get to the correct operating temperature correctly (although that tolerance has also much improved over the years).

You are aware of the VW Emissions Scandal that has rocked the motoring world aren't you ? The manufacturers didn't think twice about risking Law Suits with that...... Why ? Because they thought they weren't getting caught !

Im not saying that the Oils cannot support the service intervals, or that the major Oil manufacturers are indeed risking law suits..... I'm just suggesting that the degradation and break down in the oil over a period of two years culminating in 20K miles cannot be good for the engines internals ?

In my own 'Version" of why service intervals have been increased it has little to do with longevity of the internals of the engine and length of increased ownership potential and lays more with the board of directors and ensuring their investors get a good return on their investment.

Getting us to pay more up front still means the car requires a service at 2 years regardless of who's paying for it ? I just think that it's a bit of a false economy.
 
If my engine has been rebuilt by hartech, all 6 cylinders, does this still apply?

Please say no🤣
 
There's no way Baz would advocate that service regime ! 😳

If I'd got one of his engine build's I'd be dropping oil at 2.5k !
There's no doubt your running the LTT as well, I shall be doing that mid soon.....

Shall I mention the 3rd central rad 😂
 
C4Silver said:
In my own 'Version" of why service intervals have been increased it has little to do with longevity of the internals of the engine and length of increased ownership potential and lays more with the board of directors and ensuring their investors get a good return on their investment.

As far as I am aware the two year oil change interval came about for environmental reasons and the amount of oil being wasted each year. Now that modern oils can last a lot longer it makes financial and environmental sense.
 

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