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3.8 Rebuild Setback

rkelly said:
Hi Ken,

Thanks for the input, it is appreciated.

I am giving serious consideration to using my original rods. What is your view on re bushing my original rods to accommodate the 23 mm pin in my new mahle pistons. Do you know were I could source suitable bushings at reasonable cost?

Cheers,
Ryan
Click to expand...


Ryan, make sure the compression heights are the same for the new pistons vs the old (the distance between the centre of the pin and the crown). Arrow can possibly bush the rods, failing that, a good engineering shop could do it.You could try Laranca Engineering, they make rods in-house, so I'm sure they can do it. We also do this, but only on our own (non Porsche) engines. I'm assuming the stock pins are larger diameter?

Didn't mean to crash Ken's answer btw.
 
rkelly said:
Hi Ken,

Thanks for the input, it is appreciated.

I am giving serious consideration to using my original rods. What is your view on re bushing my original rods to accommodate the 23 mm pin in my new mahle pistons. Do you know were I could source suitable bushings at reasonable cost?

Cheers,
Ryan
Click to expand...

Not sure why you need to bush the original rods?

Normally the issue is the width of the rod connection to the piston - we either machine the rod down 25mm (iirc as I am not in my shop at the moment) to 23mm or take out from the piston connection. Either way works, you just need a good machine shop to make the alternations.

There are many good fastners for the rods - ARP for example works fine.

Just finishing off a 3.8L Mahle conversion at the moment and had to take a little out of the piston connection to make the rods fit. Pretty straight forward stuff.

Ken
 
Hi Ken and Mike,

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

I would need to rebush the rods as the 964 small ends are 25 mm. The pistons I have are 993 RSR items and have a pin size of 23 mm. If I don't rebush the rods the gudgeon pins would be rattling around in the in small end. I hadn't considered using the original pins and machining the new piston connection.

The link below shows the Piston and barrel kit I purchased; this may explain why I opted for the Carrillo rods in the first place:

http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/-...r_Set_-_964_993_11.3:1_109mm__narrow_rod.html

The rods are going back today. FVD are going to send me a replacement set to try first. If the replacement set have the same problem I will use the originals.

Thank you for the link to the fasteners.
 
rkelly said:
Hi Ken and Mike,

Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

I would need to rebush the rods as the 964 small ends are 25 mm. The pistons I have are 993 RSR items and have a pin size of 23 mm. If I don't rebush the rods the gudgeon pins would be rattling around in the in small end. I hadn't considered using the original pins and machining the new piston connection.

The link below shows the Piston and barrel kit I purchased; this may explain why I opted for the Carrillo rods in the first place:

http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/-...r_Set_-_964_993_11.3:1_109mm__narrow_rod.html

The rods are going back today. FVD are going to send me a replacement set to try first. If the replacement set have the same problem I will use the originals.

Thank you for the link to the fasteners.
Click to expand...
No problems at all - gudgeon pins as you say need to be a good fit. Bushing should be straight forward to resolve.

Ken
 
Unfortunately this is not the update I wanted to be posting here. After a one month dispute; FVD have finally accepted that there is a problem with the parts they supplied me with.

Initially, they refused to accept there was a problem with the rods that I returned. As a consequence, they would not send me a replacement set of rods as they believed we were making a mistake. I was repeatedly told "we have sold hundreds of these rods and have never had a problem". As you can imagine this caused considerable frustration to my engine builder and myself.

This stalemate went on for several weeks until they finally tried to fit the rods to a 964 crankshaft. What took my engine builder 10 minutes to see, took FVD 2 weeks to recognise. I did not even receive and apology for the inconvenience caused. They did offer to sell me another set of rods at 10% discount. This wouldn't cover the cost of my time and my engine builders time to resolve this issue. Not to mention the fact my engine build has been delayed by over a month.

They have sent these back to Carrillo to be checked and I have received a refund. I fully accept that manufacturing errors can happen however, the customer service experience to reach this conclusion has been appalling.

It appears I will use the factory rods for my build now. I have spoken to George (my engine builder) about this and it appears I owe Ken an apology. The bushing/pin size is compatible with the 3.8 pistons. It is the rod width to fit the piston connection that needs modified. As Ken has said here, I simply need to machine the SE width down from 25 mm to 23 mm to fit the piston connection. I will order new fasteners this week and hopefully the build will resume next week.

Sigh...
 
Sorry to here about your problems sunshine...
Goes to show how lucky we all are on here to have the likes of Ken and Dyno Mike to show some clear headed thinking and wisdom. Thanks for being there guy's :thumb:

Good luck with the rest of the build and let's hope it's plain sailing from here on in. Keep us posted :thumbs:
 
Have to say not surprised - every 3.8L 964 we have done including last month we always have machine work to make everything fit, even using Mahle.

I presume you have checked that the barrels fit the heads? We always machine those to fit a better sealing ring as a matter of course.

If I had a pound for every aftermarket shop that said we have fitted/sold hundreds I would be retired :grin: - in most cases they don't have a clue I'm afraid.

Let's hope it moves forward quickly now.

I would suggest you make sure your builder measures the compression before you get too far in your re build. DO NOT assume that the compression they tell you is correct. I know a lot of engines that have blown up relying on what they have been sold when in fact compression is different. Also compression will change higher if you have to machine the heads/barrels and reduce is you do valve work.

Good Luck :thumb:
 
Hi Chief/Ken,

We have checked the new barrels already. My engine is an M64/1 so my heads do need to be modified. This is already the plan. The heads will get machined this week along with the rods.

Thanks again for the input.

Cheers,
Ryan
 

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At least its progress Ryan, if not what you had planed.
 
Have to say not surprised - every 3.8L 964 we have done including last month we always have machine work to make everything fit, even using Mahle.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that Ken. When Redtek did my 3.8 build (Mahle pistons) there was quite a lot of machining to do. I don't know how people manage to tackle these builds at home, they must have big ****s :grin:

Good luck Ryan, I hope all goes well!

Cheers,
Paul
 
Hi Ken,

What supplier do you use for the barrel to head sealing ring/gasket? It sounds like you typically use a non standard item. Something like this?

http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/-11-20/-/-/item/item_details/VID_22949476-VCD_36862159-gid_39-sort_4-display_50-item_FVD104999993/Tuning_-_Engine_-_Sport_Piston___Cylinder_FVD104999993_Gasket_`Le_Mans`_113mm_only_for_MAHLE_Cylinders_3_05mm.html

I can't seem to find anything suitable on the patrick motorsport website.


Cheers,
Ryan
 
rkelly said:
Hi Ken,

What supplier do you use for the barrel to head sealing ring/gasket? It sounds like you typically use a non standard item. Something like this?

http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/-11-20/-/-/item/item_details/VID_22949476-VCD_36862159-gid_39-sort_4-display_50-item_FVD104999993/Tuning_-_Engine_-_Sport_Piston___Cylinder_FVD104999993_Gasket_`Le_Mans`_113mm_only_for_MAHLE_Cylinders_3_05mm.html

I can't seem to find anything suitable on the patrick motorsport website.


Cheers,
Ryan
Click to expand...

Ryan

Send me a PM.

Ken
 
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