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Huge Air-Cooled Prices/ Values. Why?

Well it's a good time of year for some crystal ball gazing whilst I'm waiting for the wife to get ready!

I think automated cars are inevitable (I saw a car advert recently for a self parking shopping trolly) and as soon as we have stats that prove automated cars are safer (let's face it they will be) we can't have too long before we see restrictions for human only controlled cars and perhaps higher taxes.

What I expect to see is cars introduced with the option of manual or auto driving modes first. Shortly after the motorway network will be taken away from manual only driven cars, either by an outright ban or more likely lane restrictions leaving only the slow lane available for those who don't have auto drive. This will be justified on the basis of safety, speed and efficiency (not without merit I'm sure) but ultimately driven by car manufacturers and governments who see the opportunity to make people go out and buy a brand new car with the added benefit of being able to cut some public service budgets.

How all of this all impact on the value of classic cars over a twenty year horizon? I guess we'll have to wait and see. They will of course remain lovely objects in their own right but it may be more difficult to justify anything akin to today's prices if you are severely limited in where you can drive it. On the other hand, perhaps we'll see a cost effective way of retrofitting auto controls to classic cars which means they still have a future as a weekend toy. Or maybe technology advancements (3D printing say) mean replicas become more viable offering cars which offer classic styling/feel with the benefits of the latest technology.

£100k seems about right, as that will be around £40k in today's money but as I see it could easily go either way. My own view is that continued rising prices aren't a good thing except for the speculators and dealers. Yes the value of your car is going up but then so is everything else, which will just make that jump from a c2 to a turbo for example that bit harder. It seems to me that the only enthusiasts who stand to benefit are those who cash in their chips and move on.
 
Enthusiasts are the ones, that lose out due to the rise in values.
As the car they wanted, years ago have now gone out of there reach.

Also people like us, who have these lovely cars now think do I sell now or keep it.
If I sold mine, could I afford another one later on answer no. Due to the values have gone up far to much.

Plus its the only model I wanted anyway. So I keep it and enjoy the car for what it is warts and all.

As for a bale out price for mine who knows?
 
Everyone has their 'bale out price'.For me it was £41500 for a 1991 964 turbo really needing fully painted and interior refurbed. Once the prices get to everyones bale out,then most guys will 'bale out'.Then there will be more cars than customers and that is when the crash will start.And it WILL happen and I dont think its far away.Thats when Ill buy another turbo.
 
highway said:
In 20 years you won't be able to drive a car as unkind to the environment as a 993. At least not in major cities. Those petrol cars that remain will be taxed massively and driving a petrol powered car will seem as socially acceptable as smoking in a doctors waiting room is now.

The curtain is coming down on self driven, gas guzzling cars. At least in the UK. Those classics that remain will be museum pieces. Only the best will be worth keeping.

This isn't history repeating itself. The oil price will bounce right back up and if it doesn't goverment will,tax back the difference. The rise of the machines ( digital cameras everywhere and road pricing) will render uneconomical cars a complete irrelevance.

This is the twilight. 20 years time will be as different to now as the the 60,s is today.

Whilst the thought of not being able to drive my Porsches doesn't sit well with me if you're vision of the future is correct I'd be more than happy to keep my old bangers in my hallway on display and just stare at them. I never get bored of looking at them :D :grin:
 
Big Jock said:
Everyone has their 'bale out price'.For me it was £41500 for a 1991 964 turbo really needing fully painted and interior refurbed. Once the prices get to everyones bale out,then most guys will 'bale out'.Then there will be more cars than customers and that is when the crash will start.And it WILL happen and I dont think its far away.Thats when Ill buy another turbo.

I think you're probably right on the majority of "classic cars " out there but all good 964 C2, RS and 964 Turbos will carry on going up or side ways worst case even if there is a crash. Good cars (i.e. anything with less than genuine 70k miles, low owners, full sh inc all invoices and original panel mint UK supplied cars) are rare as hens teeth and I doubt you'll be able to get into a good 964 turbo for less than £70k ever again.

Sure cars with stories that need a full repaint and engine overhaul will always be available at £40-£50k but good luck trying to pick one up for less. :FYI:
 
Just as there are many views about this subject on this thread, there are many different customer segments driving the market. People are buying and selling for a variety of reasons in other words and you can't generalise about a market in that way.

You'll have your long standing passionate type. Love the brand and know it intimately. Buy and sell models every couple of years. And are now getting caught out on the rising tide.

You'll have your owner investor type. A generalist who's relatively new to the brand. Passion is shared though between ROC (Return on Capital) and the brand.

You'll have the multi buyer. Just love collecting and have the wherewithal (money) to do so. But it's not an investment portfolio. It's a love.

You'll have the all eggs in one basket type. Either one car for enthusiasm plus a daily, or just one car they use as a daily. Have the passion but don't have the funds / need for any more. But the passion is the driver not the RoC.

And many many many more. Once those segments are explored who's buying, why and for what intentions, you'll be able to 'tell' the market. Without that data one mans guess is no more valid than another's :?
 
There is a lot of money still to come from Russia, China, India and South America.

They will be buying these cars and taking them home.

Less supply means higher prices.
 
PeterS said:
There is a lot of money still to come from Russia, China, India and South America.

They will be buying these cars and taking them home.

Less supply means higher prices.

Bring 'em on...sounds good to me (for obvious reasons).
Mind you, not sure about the ruskies, the Rouble is going down faster than Linda Lovelace.


Paul.
 
I think I must be missing something. Why would wealthy individuals from any of these countries seek out UK cars?

I know lots of S1 Elises left the country a few years ago for mainland Europe which pushed prices up but I understood that was down to a weak pound and Lotus not distributing that particular model in Europe outside of the UK - neither seem to apply here

I'm also not sure why a flood of foreign money pushing up prices and taking vehicles out of the country is a good thing?
 
Unlikely.

Older cars will be such a small proportion of total vehicles on the road that they will have excemption based on age and (perhaps) annual mileage.

Until there's a real alternative to carbon fuels then the focus will be on ever more efficiency; most electric cars are only low or nil carbon at the point of consumption. We still generate too much mains power using fossil fuels.

But back to the OP topic, then my guess is that values for anything that harks back to a (golden?) time of greater freedoms will stay in demand.
 
It's not just the air cooled ones. The 996 GT's are rising fast. Turbos moving up. c2's bottomed out and potentially turning a corner.
I reckon if I want a 996 turbo I need to move this year or miss out. I've already left it too it too long for a GT3. To be frank nothing would surprise me over the next 12 months, neither continuing rising prices nor a complete crash!
 
rottenbend said:
Rialas said:
What effect will this have on our cars. Likely to expand?

Only 5 years away.

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/ultra-low-emission-zone

Not a lot IMO. Reading the paper the ULEZ will only apply to cars up to 14 years old. Privates petrol cars only contribute to 3% of the problem anyway. It's diesel vehicles they are really targeting.
I'll have to read again, thought that cars over that age would automatically pay the high band 24/7.
 

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