Track day project

[Lef]

Decided to convert my 3.4 C2 996 to a track day car and I need your collective nous and experience in helping me out. The car will do 5-6 trackdays a year, but it needs to be streetable for the occasional Sunday drive. I have experience of trackdays, and I am also tracking other cars at the moment

My chosen spec (so far):
- Ohlins R&T + full suspension refresh
- Brembo discs, pagid RS29
- X51 baffles
- upgraded radiators
- SW motosports half cage
- I am keeping the 17in stock wheels with PS2 at the moment, intentionally. I might upgrade later
- seats, harnesses etc, how much of the interior to remove, to be decided

9e advised against a deep sump on the basis that it will sit too low.

Now, to my questions:
- Harness: where do people mount the left side strap (i.e. where the buckle is on stock seats). GT3 recaros seem to be bolted on the side seat mounts but are there any better options?
-Steering wheel: does the deep dish wheel option (e.g. momo mod.07) gives a better driving position or will a flat steering work as well.
- Low temp thermostats, 3rd radiators?
- Camber plates?
- External oil cooler?
- Any other essentials i missed.

Finally, I know that the engine might grenade at some point, but i would like to put this aside for the purposes of this thread.

 

[crash7]

I have walked a similar path

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=134930&sid=76883b55960598939b3998ad2a0297f1

Some of the info may be useful, I have not updated in sometime

Mine sits low and I have had no issues with a deeper FVD sump.

I have never needed an external oil cooler or to 'upgrade' the existing rads

Yes to a third centre rad and low temp stat

Yes to camber, you will need two piece lower control arms which are now expensive, you may get -1 by moving the top mounts in the slots, to get more than -1, which you will need if you want to maximise grip and tire wear, its LCA's

If you getting two piece LCA's for the front I would also get adjustable rear toe links for the rears.

I run a Porsche Cup steering wheel, which is a Momo Mod7, there is not a significant difference in driving position to the flat wheel, unless you run the spacer, but it feels better and saves weight in removing the airbag.

High temp brake fluid and 997 GT3 brake ducts are a must to extract the full potential from RSL29's.

Porsche sell a bracket to mount the harness, Jin (HSC911) will also sell you what you need.

Gook luck :thumb:

 

[photek]

Looks like most things are covered :thumbs:

I'll just add GT3 front brake ducts, braided hoses and some new brake fluid -.... and a Center Gravity suspension setup

 

[photek]

I have walked a similar path

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=134930&sid=76883b55960598939b3998ad2a0297f1

Wow..

I'll have to sit down with a cup of tea and work my way through that thread

 

[Lef]

Some great input here and a link to an excellent thread, thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.

I have done the gt3 brake ducts, braided hoses and high temp fluid, so it looks like I need to start looking into camber plates and lca options as a next step. The idea is to finish the interior by Feb and go to Brands Hatch for a first shakedown and to decide what needs fine tuning and what to do next.

Crash7 - I noticed in your build you went for a lightweight flywheel. I always like the feel of them, but do you think it will be too compromised for the road?

 

[coullstar]

As you probably know brakes and cooling for oil / water / brakes is key for track.

Having tracked mine only once (but tracked other cars) brakes were the first thing to go (std brakes, no fancy pads etc but with GT3 ducts) and dictated the time on track. Thats the first place Id go for upgrade.

I have the X51 sump and no issues on that front with pressure/temps. Water was getting higher. Id maybe remove the aircon condensors / system so rads get full fresh air.
Good seat is another must IMO.

 

[MaxA]

It's already been covered but the full pack of fresh discs, pads, lines and fluid is a must-do; and it's definitely worth getting a really good tyre pressure gauge to keep an eye on tyre pressures through out the day (remembering always to pump them up at the end of the day once they've cooled down a bit).

And additional cooling if you see your coolant and oil temps getting too high; additional gauges that plug into the ECU can be helpful in monitoring. I found that fresh engine and transmission mounts help control the mass of the drivetrain.

And then, always set up. I'd start with a good alignment, maybe some stiffer ARBs and then add camber as you see fit, as it suits your driving style. My 997 turns in well with 1.2 degrees up front, and I've not yet fitted the Vorshlag camber plates in the stash.

 

[Lef]

As you probably know brakes and cooling for oil / water / brakes is key for track.

Having tracked mine only once (but tracked other cars) brakes were the first thing to go (std brakes, no fancy pads etc but with GT3 ducts) and dictated the time on track. Thats the first place Id go for upgrade.

I have the X51 sump and no issues on that front with pressure/temps. Water was getting higher. Id maybe remove the aircon condensors / system so rads get full fresh air.
Good seat is another must IMO.

Agreed - first time on track with the 996 my brakes went too, due to pads overheating. So now running new brembo discs with the very noisy rsl29, and high temp fluid and had no problems since. Brake pedal feel is great and consistent.

You are right on the seat, which has been one of my biggest issues so far; I will update once I conclude my search on that front. Currently leaning towards the corbeau range which seems to fit my anatomy well.

 

[Lef]

It's already been covered but the full pack of fresh discs, pads, lines and fluid is a must-do; and it's definitely worth getting a really good tyre pressure gauge to keep an eye on tyre pressures through out the day (remembering always to pump them up at the end of the day once they've cooled down a bit

And additional cooling if you see your coolant and oil temps getting too high; additional gauges that plug into the ECU can be helpful in monitoring. I found that fresh engine and transmission mounts help control the mass of the drivetrain.

And then, always set up. I'd start with a good alignment, maybe some stiffer ARBs and then add camber as you see fit, as it suits your driving style. My 997 turns in well with 1.2 degrees up front, and I've not yet fitted the Vorshlag camber plates in the stash.

Good point on additional gauges, maybe I should look for an oil pressure/temp gauge set up.

I have new semi solid engine mounts but I haven't looked at transmission mounts; one more for the list! Thanks

 

[1marc]

I'd add adjustable anti roll bars and a geo set up that includes corner balancing.

The dished steering wheel does aid a better driving position, as will bucket seats.

 

[Shalmaneser]

It's already been covered but the full pack of fresh discs, pads, lines and fluid is a must-do; and it's definitely worth getting a really good tyre pressure gauge to keep an eye on tyre pressures through out the day (remembering always to pump them up at the end of the day once they've cooled down a bit

And additional cooling if you see your coolant and oil temps getting too high; additional gauges that plug into the ECU can be helpful in monitoring. I found that fresh engine and transmission mounts help control the mass of the drivetrain.

And then, always set up. I'd start with a good alignment, maybe some stiffer ARBs and then add camber as you see fit, as it suits your driving style. My 997 turns in well with 1.2 degrees up front, and I've not yet fitted the Vorshlag camber plates in the stash.

Good point on additional gauges, maybe I should look for an oil pressure/temp gauge set up.

I have new semi solid engine mounts but I haven't looked at transmission mounts; one more for the list! Thanks

There's already an oil pressure gauge - there's little point in an oil temp gauge if you have pressure as all you really care about is if the oil is too hot and isn't at an adequate pressure which you can check directly.

Probably worth having the gauge calibrated or at least tested as they tend to vary from car to car. Don't know what the hot idle pressure should actually be in bar but would be interesting to check against gauge.

 

[911UK]

excellent project

add a refresh and upgrade of the engine mounts

 

[Armagreggon85]

I use my '97 c2 for a mix of track and road use. The car is on ~150k and I've done about 50k miles over the last 7 and a half years. Usually gets a couple of track days, normally at least the Nurburgring, and 6-10k miles a year. This year I'm booked for Zolder, Zandvoort, Spa and the Ring. Having had 2 engine rebuilds (dont think they're track related - IMS failure and a cracked cylinder head) I'm always a bit nervous thrashing it on track, particularly about oil pressure, but it's genrrally been pretty robust.

The main weakness on track were the stock brakes. I run standard pagid discs from ECP and I've previously used PFC 08 pads, currently on Pagid RS29, I've found both to be good. I've always used castrol SRF fluid and bleed before every track day but I'm currently experimenting with Motul RBF600, the jury's still out on that. I've got the gt3 brake ducts and these were peanuts from OPC.

My car has the factory LSD, but I'm sure it needs a rebuild by now, it's on the list. I've got polyurethane gearbox mount inserts and RSS semi solid engine mounts. These really tightened the rear end up. I'm on H&R coilovers with m030 anti roll bars. The geometry was done by CofG.

Engine wise I run the BMC panel filter with the blanked off helmholz resonator. Top gear headers, 200cel X-pipe and Spyder switchable silencers. I've got the TTV lightweight flywheel and Helix sprung clutch disc. I was a little concerned about stories of cranks snapping with a solid flywheel, but I had my flywheel balanced with the crank and main pulley during the engine rebuild and my engine builder reckoned it was beneficial having less weight hanging off the end of the crank. The lightweight flywheel gets a bit tiring when driving in heavy traffic, but it makes a huge difference to the character and I believe the performance (combined with sports cats). It rips right through the rev range, pulls really hard up to the redline and makes heel toe shifts a bit easier.

I run the x51 sump, and OE bash plate, with millers nanodrive 10w50. The heavier oil makes a big difference to pressure but I'd like to find a better sump solution; on long corners such as rivage at Spa and particularly Luffield at Silverstone I've seen pressure drop to 2 bar which I'm a bit uncomfortable with. I've also since added the 3rd radiator which will hopefully help.

Tyres I just used to run PS4 on my 18" turbo twists. Pretty good in cooler and wet weather but these really overheated on a warm track day at Donington and we're not nice. Last year I treated the car to a set of OZ Alleggerita and some Nankang NS2R 235/40 F 285/35 R for warmer track days. I know these aren't the ultimate track tyre but I was amazed with the transformation the tyres aline make. Compared to the michelins the nankangs made the steering pin sharp. Turn in is super aggressive and the car positively less for the apex and clings on tight. On the road it blows my mind how anyone could want more performance

Next on my list I think some decent bucket seats would make a big difference. I'm 6'2" and 110kg so my legs tend to rub on the steering wheel and a lot of effort is expended holding myself in the seat.

Overall I think, with a few modifications, they're great cars for the track, but also not that common. My car will pretty much keep up with an e46 m3 on track and my driving ability is definitely the limiting factor

I'm looking forwards to hearing how you get on.

 

[Lef]

Thank you all for the very valuable input and for sharing your experiences.

Progress since my last post has been that I have now bought the following:
- Sparco QRT-V seat with Sparco steel side mounts
- Brey Krause R-9044 sub strap/floor mount adapter
- Sabelt sw-633 steering wheel
- Momo hub adapter kit
- Sparco 6 Point Club Racer Harness
- Scroth B23A harness brackets
- Porsche seat belt mounting bracket (964.521.065.00)

The above together with the SWM half cage completes the interior mods; i now need to decide how much of the interior to strip out.

On the seat installation, it is worth mentioning a couple of points. Firstly the BK substrap mount is not compatible with sliders, so you need to be sure that you like your seat fixed. It also makes the side mounts difficult to fit, because of the way the bar itself attaches to the floor mount bit. In most cases you will need to use spacers between the seat and the side mounts or use side mounts that have a very narrow base (such as the BK own range, which unfortunately offers little adjustability and are super expensive).

On the plus side, the BK-Sparco installation, once in, allows the seat to be mounted very low and the seat itself is of excellent quality, comfortable, superlight, and suitable for wider body shapes. For reference it is priced similarly to Recaro pole positions, but it is wider and a couple of Kg lighter.

Other things to mention, I decided against the Momo mod07 as i prefer a smaller wheel. The Sabelt 633 is perfect for me, the right diameter, thickness and material. It obscures some of the instruments so I need to buy an adapter for that. Another small point to mention is the way the horn button works is different to Momo so some of the parts included in the Momo hub adapter kit are not required.

Next step now is to take the car to 9E for the ohlins installation and geo. Based on feedback from the forum, I will ask them to do the gearbox mount insert and check the oil pressure gauge. After that, hopefully the first TD at Brands Hatch

 

[Lef]

I use my '97 c2 for a mix of track and road use. The car is on ~150k a...

I'm looking forwards to hearing how you get on.

Thank you for sharing, you clearly put a lot of effort in your built and you have approached it similarly to the way i think about it. Sounds like a great, fun 996.

Your comment on flywheels and sports cats is also something i need to investigate more. I have the gundo hack and resonator delete at the moment, so i am marginal on sound for most TDs so i will have to look into this when I need new back boxes.

The Nankang NS2R or AD08s are on my radar, most likely for next year.

Hopefully my previous post can give you some ideas on seats; which is an essential upgrade for TD driving.