997 vague steering with Michelin PS4S

[rosino]

I take that back. Asda seem to have available mail order. 879 for all 4 tyres. With a 50 prepaid cash card discount. So 829 all in..

 

[jamesr36]

Just an update on this. I tried various pressures. I found 29/35 cold was lots better but I still couldn't get on with the PS4Ss. Doing lots of on line research, most people love these but a few don't and have the same issue as me. Softer tyre walls resulting in vague steering.

I have just replaced my 1000 mile old PS4Ss with a set of PS2 N2 (the tyre fitter thought I had lost my mind). The PS2s are slightly noisier, have a harder ride and a little less grip but the accurate steering is back and I am very happy with my car again.

My car has a slightly non standard set up. The rear has less toe in and less camber that standard so maybe its something to do with that but others might want to consider what they want from their car before changing tyre.

Old tyres have been sold. Thanks for everyone's advice.

 

[gizlaroc]

I missed this thread.

100% agree with you.

The standard PS4S and PS2, ie not N rated, non star marked, have an outside edge that is far too soft and because of that all steering feel and the turn in precision is completely lost.

The N rated PS2 uses a firmer compound on the outside edge, BMW do the same on their PS4S star marked tyre, so be worth finding out if Michelin have done the same for the N rated PS4S, because the standard PS4 and PS4S is far to squidgy imho.

I have put Cup 2's on my 996 and that has brought the steering feel back, but do get that I will have to put the PS4 back on for winter.

 

[maldren]

The problem with N rated tyres is that they are set up and tested by Porsche and the tyre manufacturer for production cars but I'm sure neither would be interested in the required testing for a car that was designed more than 20 years ago.

N rated tyres are fine for new cars, tyres move on but N ratings don't after car production ends.

Tyres have undoubtedly moved on a lot in 20 years but that doesn't necessarily mean that new tyres suit old cars. It's a bigger issue for cars like my 1970 Elan +2!

 

[gizlaroc]

I agree, but they do revise them, hence N, N1, N2, N3, N4 etc.

So the original N rated PS2 is not the same as the PS2 N4, as rubber tech and tread patterns improve they bring that tech into a newer revision.

It is not like they are selling an 18 year old tyre, some of the N revisions came out after the PS4. Which I am sure has been revised itself over its 7 year life.


But the star rating or N rating will no doubt add certain things to a tyre for certain cars, like a firmer rubber on the outside 1/8th of the tyre to give teh steering feel and turn in that people expect from say an M car or Porsche.

I'm not saying they design a tyre for a car that has been out of production for 20 years, and more often than not as power increases so does tyre width, which means wheel size also increases, which means that older gen cars don't even get offered the latest tyre in the size they need.

But, there is no guarantee that the latest and greatest tyre is going to give you the feel you want from your car, an older tyre model name might work better for you. You might loose the last 5% of ultimate grip, but keep steering feel. For someone who never needs more than 80-85% of grip offered that might make it the better tyre.


Same way changing the load rating of two so called identical tyres can make them feel completely different too. Higher load rating on the front of a 911 can be far nicer for steering feel off centre and the overall steering weight, too soft and it feels dead off centre and too light. You can again loose that super crisp steering, that feeling that wherever you point it it goes. Again, that is what the N rated will give, it might be that on paper the tyres is rated for a much heavier car, but is done because it improves steering so much.


Asymmetrical vs non asymmetrical feels very different too, to me they always feel more grippy on road, well in the dry, but when they let go they snap, where as the non aasymmetrical tyres are very progressive at the back, I have more trust in them as you can feel what they are doing more.


At least we have options, and those options can really allow you to get your car feeling how you like it.

 

[tob_today]

Very interesting. Heard similar from Jonathan Benson (Tyre Reviews) on Sam Moores podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7yCU5P58yyMkIY7sHF9oDP?si=hC6J2k9bSh68g5KeaX37Cw

Worth a listen if someone wants to understand tyres & tyre testing. Ultimately it's hard to know how a manufacturer spec tyre compares with newer generic tyres, or how revisions vary over time. Tyre technology moves on relatively quickly, and proper testing is a very involved process.

 

[MaxA]

Interesting stuff from Jonathan Benson, especially the OE discussion. I liked this line:

"you don't want to love Porsche, but then you drive Porsche, and then you love Porsche"

 

[gizlaroc]

Very interesting. Heard similar from Jonathan Benson (Tyre Reviews) on Sam Moores podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7yCU5P58yyMkIY7sHF9oDP?si=hC6J2k9bSh68g5KeaX37Cw

Worth a listen if someone wants to understand tyres & tyre testing. Ultimately it's hard to know how a manufacturer spec tyre compares with newer generic tyres, or how revisions vary over time. Tyre technology moves on relatively quickly, and proper testing is a very involved process.

Thanks, I will have a listen to that in the car tomorrow.

Jonathan did a great Youtube review of the Michelin PS4S vs the PS4S star marked version.

I wish the tyre manufacturers would give us more info on how the OEM specced tyre is different to the off the shelf version.